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Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
James, it would save the government money in the long run, because the government covers the bill for those with no health insurance when they go to the hospital. So it would save the government money if everyone does have insurance, so that is correct.
Our standing trade issues had nothing to do with Obama. It's been this way since 1976 and peaked with Saint President Reagan who crushed efforts to turn the tide (by Dick Gephardt) when we had the chance in 1987.
Yes, he needs to change shit, he needs to do reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act. But considering this was the first time in history that the congress and senate have obstructed on this level, with no-bipartisanship at all, and there are CURENTLY several bills collecting dust that the senate and congress won't pass, don't count on anything happening... And you know, we can't function without an actual working congress, no matter who the president is. This makes the Clinton era look like Camelot.
Our goverment has been sabotaged by the Republican congress. Mitch McConnell is a traitor. When you say, as a sitting senator, the leader of your party, the minority leader in the senate, that your main goal is to make Obama a one term president, forget the fact he has no business using his position to get involved in a presidential election (for four years!), let alone make that his sole purpose of the senate, he is deliberately trying to sabotage this economy. It was exposed by a conservative journalist, substantiated by Newt Gingrich, that McConnnell ORDERED his party to say no to every Obama bill. The obstruction is on historic levels. Lets just make things clear here...
I think Hillary would have been better at the start, because she would have held Republicans hostage with the Bush tac cuts, but no one could do anything with this do-nothing-congress.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I'm thankful they've been obstructionist if that's the case. Somebody needs to be. The things Obama has been focused on are bad. His ideas of fixing things are forcing things many don't want down our throats. Somebody has to stop that on principle if nothing else. The things Obama promised to do he hasn't delivered, nor has he tried to deliver some of them. I recall we were going to be out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately when he was running...how'd that work out? I seem to remember right after being elected, he announced that we would not be pulling out...did he just figure out that wasn't possible after the election or did he know it the whole time but say it anyway to get elected? I see a lot of blame directed at Republicans when they aren't in charge and weren't at all in charge the first 2 years. What did Obama do then? What did he do to help the economy besides bail out his union buddies?
The whole system is screwed up. Nobody is working together, and that goes to both sides, not just one. The way it is set up, people are campaigning all the time and nobody is actually trying to fix anything. All politicians are bad. ALL of them. They don't get to that level nationally by being for the people, they get there for being for the party. The whole government at the national level is about self preservation and it sickens me. They all suck...every one of them.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
What is he trying to do that is bad? What specific bills?
I can't say that anymore, that it's both sides. It's not. Hell, it's not the whole republican party, because Boehner wants to work with the president, but isn't allowed to. He had a historic spending cut bill that was sabotaged by Mcconnell, Cantor and his tea party minions.
Obama isn't in charge, it's shared responsibility, that's why we don't have a dictatorship. The first two years were the first time in the history of this country where every bill needed 60 votes. More filibusters in the first 2 years of his first term than at anytime in the history of this country.
How did he bail out his union buddies, when he forced GM to change the union friendly boss of GM? Unions are calling him out that he's not helping them. Bills republicans were once for, even months before, some even who helped construct, sponsor and champion said bills, they're now suddenly against.
Bills in limbo:
Student loans bill.
Transportation bill.
Jobs bill.
Hardly controversial.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
By reading all this stuff, I don't have either of these objections to my own government. I prefer the other side as things stands, but these are issues I never give much thought and I doubt others do as well here. Different world.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
What is he trying to do that is bad? What specific bills?
I can't say that anymore, that it's both sides. It's not. Hell, it's not the whole republican party, because Boehner wants to work with the president, but isn't allowed to. He had a historic spending cut bill that was sabotaged by Mocconnell, Cantor and his tea party minions.
Obama isn't in charge, it's shared responsibility, that's why we don't have a dictatorship. The first two years were the first time in the history of this country where every bill needed 60 votes. More filibusters in the first 2 years of his first term than at anytime in the history of this country.
How did he bail out his union buddies, when he forced GM to change the union friendly boss of GM? Unions are calling him out that he's not helping them. Bills republicans were once for, even months before, they suddenly went against.
Bills in limbo:
Student loans bill.
Transportation bill.
Jobs bill.Hardly controversial.
I'm not going to pull up specific bills - I've given up on politics. He's a politician just like every other one...only interested in maintaining power for his side of things; not looking out for everybody. And it is everybody...Dems aren't working with Repubs either...you're just buying their message that they are because it supports what you believe. They are all to blame.
Forced GM to change the Union friendly boss? So what? The employees are still overpaid and the Union bosses are still making a killing. What's changed? Nada.
So if the Reps are blocking stuff simply because they are sick of the Dems trying to shove shit down their throats, good for them. When the Dems want to actually work with the Reps, then there might be some progress. This has been going on for years and with both parties in charge...again, it's BOTH parties that are responsible. Blaming the Reps for being better at it or taking it to a higher level doesn't change that fact.
I repeat: The whole system is screwed up. Nobody is working together, and that goes to both sides, not just one. The way it is set up, people are campaigning all the time and nobody is actually trying to fix anything. All politicians are bad. ALL of them. They don't get to that level nationally by being for the people, they get there for being for the party. The whole government at the national level is about self preservation and it sickens me. They all suck...every one of them.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I will say the whole illigal immigrant thing is pure BS. I have no problem with people wanting to come to the US. There's a legal process; use it. If you don't use it, you leave. No questions asked. You go, your kids go. Illegals are a huge drain on our resources. I don't care that you get good grades...you're going to school for free. You're getting healthcare for free. Take what you learned and go back to do it the right way.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I will say the whole illigal immigrant thing is pure BS. I have no problem with people wanting to come to the US. There's a legal process; use it. If you don't use it, you leave. No questions asked. You go, your kids go. Illegals are a huge drain on our resources. I don't care that you get good grades...you're going to school for free. You're getting healthcare for free. Take what you learned and go back to do it the right way.
Oh, I agree... to a point 
Obama has deported more illegals than any president in US history, to the point liberals have been calling him the "deporter and chief." But I do believe a balance needs to be struck, because their is absolute real disasterous repercussions and consequences if you're too stark on this.
The system has been so out of whack for so long, that it would hurt the economy even more if we sent them all back, which is exactly why most states won't do that, despite what they say, or what their rhetoric is for this reason:
No state wants to be the most expensive to live in. Just the trip to the grocery store would hurt families, because of the cost it would take to pay Americans to farm and produce foods and materials. There are several economists who fear that less illegal immigrants will hurt the American economy. Many businesses would be forced to close, driving up food prices, for example, even more. And we wold lose more higher-paying American jobs in the process (of those businesses), hurting the economy even more. Not to mention closing off badly needed poistions that are open to educated American workers right now. But these workers HAVE to pay into the tax pool; medicare, ss, etc..
It would work by allowing a certain number to stay on a guest worker visas, which is the real way to go. Despite what Latino groups say, people are not coming here for the American dream (they would much rather be in Mexico) they're here for a better paying job. That's it. If you gave them an avenue to stay, even temporary without the threat of jail or deportation, they'd take it.
But certain jobs, like construction, manufacturing, etc., should be strictly US workers. First and foremost, we need better education for American students. An American first rule could also solve the debate that they do jobs Americans won't, which I believe is true in a lot of cases.
This is also a compassion thing, I hate to see kids who spend their entire lives here, never had a voice or made the decision to come here, have to be sent back to Mexico. I know most don't feel that same compassion, but I do.
And the majority of people out of work are not being hurt by illegals taking their jobs. I think the president is doing the right thing, by opening up avenues that won't hurt the economy and also making historic strides in deportation.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I'm not going to pull up specific bills - I've given up on politics. He's a politician just like every other one...only interested in maintaining power for his side of things; not looking out for everybody. And it is everybody...Dems aren't working with Repubs either...you're just buying their message that they are because it supports what you believe. They are all to blame.
Forced GM to change the Union friendly boss? So what? The employees are still overpaid and the Union bosses are still making a killing. What's changed? Nada.
So if the Reps are blocking stuff simply because they are sick of the Dems trying to shove shit down their throats, good for them. When the Dems want to actually work with the Reps, then there might be some progress. This has been going on for years and with both parties in charge...again, it's BOTH parties that are responsible. Blaming the Reps for being better at it or taking it to a higher level doesn't change that fact.
I repeat: The whole system is screwed up. Nobody is working together, and that goes to both sides, not just one. The way it is set up, people are campaigning all the time and nobody is actually trying to fix anything. All politicians are bad. ALL of them. They don't get to that level nationally by being for the people, they get there for being for the party. The whole government at the national level is about self preservation and it sickens me. They all suck...every one of them.
I'm being serious, what are they trying to shove down their throats? I mean specifically. I know you don't want to look for specific bills, but man, that has a lot to do with your argument.
What about the bills Republicans are trying to shove down our throats, like the disasterous Paul Ryan budget? That's pure one way ideology.
The Dems have been working with Republicans for years. Thats why I point out, this is the first time in history that they haven't on this scale. And only one party is blocking any attempt at it. I'm not a Dem, nor want to be, and I have my share of problems with them, but in this case, it isn't a two party problem. The Dems are too spineless to shove anything down anyones throat. There are too many conservative dems to do that.
Obama was working on compromises with Boehner that liberals were BLASTING him for, that he was giving up too much and fighting him. These were bills conservative economists, journalists, were begging Boehner to back, like the grand bargain. But alas, nada...
And Obama forced Unions to make big consessions, so you can't say he's done nada on that front:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/30/uaw-ob … nions.html
And PS, the auto industry is much, much better off, since Obama became president.
I agree, I hate politicans, but you keep singling Obama out as this horrible, almost tyrant like figure, who's trying to shove all this stuff down our throats... I've heard this before, so I ask, what specific things has he attempted to do that is so dire?
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I think you're completely missing my point. I never said Reps weren't doing it too. I'm just not pretending it's one-sided.
The Healthcare bill alone is enough that I shouldn't have to bother to look for anything else. For giggles we'll add in the immigration policy change or whatever he's calling it. Those 2 alone should have him out of a job. Then Romney can mess it up in the other direction and we'll call for his head...
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
buzzsaw wrote:I will say the whole illigal immigrant thing is pure BS. I have no problem with people wanting to come to the US. There's a legal process; use it. If you don't use it, you leave. No questions asked. You go, your kids go. Illegals are a huge drain on our resources. I don't care that you get good grades...you're going to school for free. You're getting healthcare for free. Take what you learned and go back to do it the right way.
Oh, I agree... to a point
Obama has deported more illegals than any president in US history, to the point liberals have been calling him the "deporter and chief." But I do believe a balance needs to be struck, because their is absolute real disasterous repercussions and consequences if you're too stark on this.
The system has been so out of whack for so long, that it would hurt the economy even more if we sent them all back, which is exactly why most states won't do that, despite what they say, or what their rhetoric is for this reason:
No state wants to be the most expensive to live in. Just the trip to the grocery store would hurt families, because of the cost it would take to pay Americans to farm and produce foods and materials. There are several economists who fear that less illegal immigrants will hurt the American economy. Many businesses would be forced to close, driving up food prices, for example, even more. And we wold lose more higher-paying American jobs in the process (of those businesses), hurting the economy even more. Not to mention closing off badly needed poistions that are open to educated American workers right now. But these workers HAVE to pay into the tax pool; medicare, ss, etc..
It would work by allowing a certain number to stay on a guest worker visas, which is the real way to go. Despite what Latino groups say, people are not coming here for the American dream (they would much rather be in Mexico) they're here for a better paying job. That's it. If you gave them an avenue to stay, even temporary without the threat of jail or deportation, they'd take it.
But certain jobs, like construction, manufacturing, etc., should be strictly US workers. First and foremost, we need better education for American students. An American first rule could also solve the debate that they do jobs Americans won't, which I believe is true in a lot of cases.
This is also a compassion thing, I hate to see kids who spend their entire lives here, never had a voice or made the decision to come here, have to be sent back to Mexico. I know most don't feel that same compassion, but I do.
And the majority of people out of work are not being hurt by illegals taking their jobs. I think the president is doing the right thing, by opening up avenues that won't hurt the economy and also making historic strides in deportation.
I don't buy the whole nobody will take the jobs they do crap. Maybe nobody will take them at that pay rate, or with those labor conditions, but somebody will take them for the right pay and the right conditions. It's supply and demand. Ignoring that, find a way for them to legally register and pay their taxes if it really is the case that there are no other options.
And what is now being allowed has no effect on those jobs...these are the educated we're supposedly allowing to stay, which means they are taking jobs from people that are here legally.
I have empathy for those people, but they've been stealing since they've been here. Free education, free healthcare, free lots of other stuff. Driving without a license or insurance. Costing taxpayers money in so many ways. Empathy is different than sympathy. If you want to stay, pay for what you've stolen. Pay a huge (and I mean huge) fee to cover what you've taken. If you've studied and done well in school, pay back what you've taken. Just letting them stay regardless of why they're here is wrong and bad for the country.
If you can come up with a solution that is fair to them and doesn't punish those that are here legally, I'll support it. I'm not anti-immigrant; I'm anti-illegal immigrant.
