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Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
It wasn't passed as a tax - in fact, it was passed specifically NOT as a tax. In fact, the dems still claim it's not a tax. When a justice has to go out of his way to claim something is different than what the bill says it is, I'll take that as supporting the fact (and it is a fact) that it is unconstitutional. There's nothing that you're going to say that is going to change my mind on this, so save your breath.
Americans don't have an entitlement attitude? Where do you live? Wow is all I can say to that...if Americans didn't, we wouldn't be where we are now with the housing crisis and credit issues.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
Buzz, how else will you pay a penalty? Through a TAX penalty. If it affects your taxes where you pay higher taxes, it is a tax.
The housing crisis came from greedy corporate lenders who changed the laws and LIED to people and scammed them into bad contracts. Where have any of them, or the people from the banking clusterfuck gone to prison? We know they did this, all of them, but yet...
A lot of people do live beyond their means, but please, let's not act like nothing underhanded and unlawful isn't going on behind this problem.
And you won't change your mind because you're stubborn and don't like being wrong, which is the problem with most Republican voters. 
Again, how can we have an entitlement attitude, especially in health care, when nearly every other country in the industrialized world has guaranteed health coverage for life?
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
Buzz, how else will you pay a penalty? Through a TAX penalty. If it affects your taxes where you pay higher taxes, it is a tax.
The housing crisis came from greedy corporate lenders who changed the laws and LIED to people and scammed them into bad contracts. Where have any of them, or the people from the banking clusterfuck gone to prison? We know they did this, all of them, but yet...
A lot of people do live beyond their means, but please, let's not act like nothing underhanded and unlawful isn't going on behind this problem.
And you won't change your mind because you're stubborn and don't like being wrong, which is the problem with most Republican voters.
Again, how can we have an entitlement attitude, especially in health care, when nearly every other country in the industrialized world has guaranteed health coverage for life?
It's not a tax though, it's a mandate. An illegal one at that.
Entitlement isn't regarding only certain issues, it's an attitude. Lazy people are entitled to gov't handouts, illegal immigrants are entitled to free education and healthcare, middle-class is entitled to live off of credit to a higher lifestyle than they can afford, etc. How can you claim there's no sense of entitlement in America? That's pure nonsense.
If I was a republican, I'd be offended by what you said. Instead I'm insulted to be called a republican.
Please...blame the banks...they FORCED people to buy bigger houses than they could afford. People were willing participants and BOTH sides are to blame. The nice thing about being independent is I can see both sides, not just the party side of things. Democrats and republicans are all the same - fighting for their greater good and not America's greater good. Nobody can do what's good for all - and don't give me some crap that that is what Obama is trying to do. Politicians are all pathetic at the national level.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I'm an independent, not a democrat or republican.
And it is a tax, it was a tax from the start, no matter what anyone said. I'd say the seat belt law is much more unconsitutional.
All politicans, even local ones (mostly wealthy guys who using their status for their own purposes) are full of shit.
Like I said, there were definitely irresponsible people who did this to themselves. What I have a problem with is lumping all these people together who were scammed.
And the majority of people who take "hand outs" only stay on the programs temporarily. If one person scams the system to stay unemployed out of a hundred, you can't call all of them lazy and free loaders.
You can't compare people who buy a big house they can't afford, a car they can't afford, TV's they can't afford, live on credit cards, etc. and people who need social safety net programs, from no fault of their own.
Entitlement and recklessness (even stupidity) are not the same thing.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
I've got no agenda, and I'm not making anything up. In all honesty, I'm probably being generous with that amount. Only 1.9% of fraud can be found in unemployment benefits. And only 2% of fraud in welfare. So about 98 out of 100 people are not comitting fraud. Those are figures I can find. And only about 8% of the population is on "hand out" programs and only 1.7% gain over 50% of their anual income from "freeloading" programs. That's not enough to place blame on them for our problems, imo.
And I really don't think we're that far apart in what we think, but I am much more left leaning than you are.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
Only 2% can be proven to have committed fraud. Beyond that, it's not "fraud" to not make an effort to better yourself because you're surviving on handouts.
Sadly I think most people are close to what we think, but the issue is the decisions are being made by the small numbers at both extremes and not those of us somewhere near the middle.
Re: Americans oppose health care law despite supporting it
Think of it like this, you either pay for their crack addiction or you don't pay and they just rob your house or something instead.
Either way, benefits for the poor are a drop in the ocean compared to the generation annual bailout theft to banks, insurance companies, airlines etc. How many trillions were paid out to the ultra rich in 08/09?
Whoever said this is just a scheme to bankrupt the private industry so the government can take over everything long term is right on the money.
