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Re: September 11 2001
What questions haven't been answered? Why the EPA said it was safe when it appears it wasn't? The buildings collapsed with insulation, jet fuel, and god knows what else in it. Who in their right mind would think it was safe regardless of what the EPA said? I went there in 2003 and I wasn't convinced it was completely safe then. Sometimes you have to use common sense and logic when making decisions.
Re: September 11 2001
polluxlm wrote:What you saw on tv was a digital simulation, because it can't happen in real life. Aluminium < Steel
This is clearly CGI:
To steal a line from the great comedy, "Airplane", ironically enough, "Surely, you can't be serious".
Yeah man, Shirley's deadly serious 
I'm all for questioning a lot of the hows and whys of this shit, but this one just doesnt have wings. (boom boom)
Re: September 11 2001
What questions haven't been answered? Why the EPA said it was safe when it appears it wasn't? The buildings collapsed with insulation, jet fuel, and god knows what else in it. Who in their right mind would think it was safe regardless of what the EPA said? I went there in 2003 and I wasn't convinced it was completely safe then. Sometimes you have to use common sense and logic when making decisions.
Re: September 11 2001
Most of those questions are unanswerable for a variety of reasons. 2 is the only one that even slightly matters at this point, and 10 is a question there is no way to answer (as with some of the other questions).
Who cares what happened on Flight 93? What changes if they crashed to avoid the passengers retaking the plane or while passengers were retaking the plane? What's the difference?
Bush or Chaney in charge? Who cares? The VP's job is to make decisions when necessary. It's an issue because he has ties to oil? That's what makes the Iraqi connection important too? Shit, you can find a conspiracy anywhere you want to if you try hard enough. I will say this...if Iraq was only about oil, wouldn't Obama have gotten us out 3 years ago?
I mean all of those questions are valid to a point, but the fact is they just don't matter anymore. It's 10 years later. If Pakistan or Saudi was directly involved, would we undo the last 10 years and go after them too? We can bitch because we went after Iraq, but people would be bitching up a storm if they found out tomorrow that Pakistan was involved and we were now going to invade them too. What does knowing 100% what many already suspect change other than putting pressure on the US to do something about it that we're not prepared to do?
Re: September 11 2001
Those questions and MORE are valid until answered... Every stitch of foreign and domestic policy are BASED on the events of 9/11/01. They matter.
Anyone who lost someone that day would take great offense to your assertion that " but the fact is they just don't matter anymore. It's 10 years later."
Look... I'm not one of those meat heads that think that the entire event was staged... But I do believe that, at a MINIMUM, the US government was criminally complicit/negligent in preventing it, and that NOBODY has held them accountable.
Iraq isn't about just oil. It's about war.
"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."
-Retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two time Medal of Honor recipient Smedley D. Butler.
9/11 gave the US gov't a blank check and carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they wanted to do in terms of military spending and the ability to wage an UNENDING war on an idea... "Terror"...
Who benefited from 9/11 the most? Bin Laden? Al Quiada?
Follow the money, sir.
We now occupy sovereign nations based on "potential threats" and imprison Americans for being "suspected terrorists" indefinitely.
We annually spend more on Military than the next 25 countries below us combined, who are ALL allies to "keep us safe" from invisible boogeymen while Americans are homeless, starving, taking out a 4th mortgage to pay their fucking medical bills, and losing their job to a 12 year old in China who makes 7 cents a day.
They're giving multi billion dollar bailouts to banks who fund the $10,000 a SECOND shit show to keep it rolling, and systematically dismantling the Bill Of Rights..
ALL based on that day.
Please... Tell me again how it's no longer relevant.
Re: September 11 2001
The most compelling case against the official 911 story (for me) was Physics professor Steven Jones from BYU. A conservative Mormon who laid out a sound and rational argument explaining it was impossible for the buildings to collapse when the planes hit them. Likewise an MIT engineer also disputed the official report as well. These aren't crackpots or nutjobs here, these are highly educated men who looked at all the data and came to logical conclusions. Building seven falling too without being hit, c'mon.
Re: September 11 2001
They don't matter anymore, that's just the way it is. It was 10 years ago. 10 years of foreign policy isn't going to be thrown away because flight 93 crashed before the people got to the cockpit. It's not going to change because Chaney was in charge, not Bush. We're not invading Saudi Arabia. Do you really think on top of everything else, the EPA was in on it too because not quite enough people had died and somehow the illness these people got years down the road in most cases would help support their end goal? Use your head for something other than a hatrack.
Here's a newsflash for you: things happen in real life. Bad things happen in real life. For all the bad things that happen, someone profits by it. For example, after 9/11, the disaster recovery industry did very well. I suppose they were part of the cause too since the money leads to them, right? Sometimes you just have to think "does this make any sense?" and when the answer is no, you understand that there is no conspiracy.
Only a complete lunatic would believe that the gov't took down the twin towers and NOBODY involved has said a peep about it to this day. Forget about all of the other "evidence" you have...that one fact ALONE is enough to disprove any conspiracy theory you may wish happened. I don't like the gov't all that much either, but I'm not going to turn idiot because people wish something else happened.
Re: September 11 2001
And there have been many, many more scientists/professors who have confirmed why things happened the way they did.
Again, it's impossible to get any of those buildings to come down with demo without anyone noticing. You can't demo a damn building with a briefcase bomb. Building seven had unfought fires and was in the debris field when the towers came down, on top of it's construction.
And why target building 7 for demo? This would be the most half assed/but genius conspiracy in the history of the world.
Re: September 11 2001
The most compelling case against the official 911 story (for me) was Physics professor Steven Jones from BYU. A conservative Mormon who laid out a sound and rational argument explaining it was impossible for the buildings to collapse when the planes hit them. Likewise an MIT engineer also disputed the official report as well. These aren't crackpots or nutjobs here, these are highly educated men who looked at all the data and came to logical conclusions. Building seven falling too without being hit, c'mon.
So the gov't thought the twin towers wasn't quite enough, let's blow up some random building that didn't get directly hit by a plane? That's the most compelling case for the conspiracy theorists?
Name me a high-rise building that didn't collapse when a plane making a west coast trip crashed into it almost full of jet fuel? I'm guessing that's going to be a short list. So if that's the case, tell me how it is impossible for the buildings to collapse.
I get it...the building is designed to survive threats to its structure...
What the building isn't designed to do is take a direct hit from an airplane full of jet fuel. That's not normal stress on a buliding.
I don't know what happened to building 7. Maybe it was hit by debris from the plane's impact or from the other buildings collapsing. Maybe the ground shaking affected it. I don't know, and I haven't read the reports to see what is said to have destroyed the building. Here's what I do know: if they were so good with their conspiracy that 10 years later not a word has been said about any of this, there's no way they accidentally blew up building 7 without it having enough damage to justify the demolition. NOBODY excecutes a conspiracy so well that nobody discusses it over a 10 year period but makes a mistake like blowing up the wrong building.
Re: September 11 2001
First.. I didn't say the gov't was responsible.
Second... Their claims that it was "a complete surprise" have proven to be false.
Third... That article I posted had a couple of irrelevant questions... The point was that there are plenty of questions to be asked. For instance... The 9/11 Commission Report mentions NOTHING about building 7. Why?
Fourth... Profiteering. We're not talking about a 40% spike in sales over the next six months... We're talking about hundreds of TRILLIONS of tax dollars being appropriated over more than a DECADE based, at heart, on lies.
To what degree officials were lying is the main question here, that too many people are like "Who gives a shit?" about.
The World Trade Center complex (building 7 included) had just recently had an enormous insurance policy taken out on it.
NO steel skyscraper in the history of everness collapsed from fire. Before or since..
Say what you will about the impact from the planes on the towers that were designed (and built) to withstand multiple commercial jets hitting it...
Only a complete lunatic would believe that a building a fucking block away... hit by nothing... Had some scattered fires on the middle few floors... Would just collapse into it own footprint at nearly free fall speed.
Look, Buzz... This is kinda why I wanted to stay out of it. We could go back and forth with this shit for a month. I spent almost 2 years researching all of this stuff... Went to symposiums... talked to family members of victims personally... I mean no disrespect to you.. There are plenty of questions that need to be answered, was all I was saying.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just accept that bad things happen in the real world that are much much scarier than what they tell you on the "news".
It's the people that refuse to accept anything other than what they're spoon fed on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC that make them able to get away with the atrocious bullshit they get away with.
EDIT..
Even at it's hottest, Jet Fuel (kerosene) doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel.
Just sayin'
