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Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
buzzsaw wrote:Cramer wrote:It just happened and the argument is that if people had been armed then a crisis could have been averted or made less severe. However the bad guy obtained the weapons legally, so can't we also conclude that we'd have a much lower chance of something like this happening with stricter gun laws?
Lax American guns laws surely didn't save lives in this case, or when Giffords was shot in Arizona (very pro gun state) either. The default answer always seems to be "If everybody had guns then..." Why not simply explore the other side and say "If everybody did NOT have guns then...."
LOL - because that is NEVER going to happen no matter what laws you pass. I live in this thing called reality. It's not always good, but it is what it is. The US will break apart before guns are banned. Period.
But you can control and avoid a lot. You can't go completely blank, but you can hinder and control. Welcome to the rest of us.
The right to own a gun is in our constitution and you can't change that. Different states make it very hard to own a gun, very difficult to obtain a gun, illegal to carry a gun. Other states, like TN, I can walk into a gun store and buy whatever I want, just as easy as buying a beer.
Every law that has tried to get passed, such as the assault weapons ban, gets struck down as unconstitutional. This is the way it is. Some people are absolutely scared to death of some big bad government boogeyman, that certain people like to play up, is coming to get them.
And yes, these people will freak out and do something stupid. It won't be another civil war but you will have more shootings and bombings from the crazies.
BTW, a civilian did have a gun when Kathy Giffords was shot, and he nearly killed one of her assistants by mistake. If I had a gun in that theater I would like to think I could've taken the guy out. There's also a million bad things that could have also happened in that scenerio.
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
buzzsaw wrote:Cramer wrote:It just happened and the argument is that if people had been armed then a crisis could have been averted or made less severe. However the bad guy obtained the weapons legally, so can't we also conclude that we'd have a much lower chance of something like this happening with stricter gun laws?
Lax American guns laws surely didn't save lives in this case, or when Giffords was shot in Arizona (very pro gun state) either. The default answer always seems to be "If everybody had guns then..." Why not simply explore the other side and say "If everybody did NOT have guns then...."
LOL - because that is NEVER going to happen no matter what laws you pass. I live in this thing called reality. It's not always good, but it is what it is. The US will break apart before guns are banned. Period.
But you can control and avoid a lot. You can't go completely blank, but you can hinder and control. Welcome to the rest of us.
In the United Kingdom in 2009 there were 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United States was 3.0, about 40 times higher, and for Germany 0.2
I don't think you understand. The country will break up before guns are banned. Good or bad, that's the truth.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
polluxlm wrote:monkeychow wrote:So if this guy had gone nuts with a knife how many people would he have killed?
I'd rather ask: If arms were outlawed, would he not have been able to get a gun?
Yes, that is the better question.
No it's a distraction...because YES....sometimes people could do something like this anyway...but it's MUCH HARDER....which inherently makes the FREQUENCY of such incidents less.
You don't need to look any further than one of the victims here who in her blog is talking about a lucky escape from a PREVIOUS recent shooting!! The odds of something like that happening here are so rare it's insane..one person happening across two gun incidents? We've had like 1 gun massacre ever in Australia and even that was before they tightened the laws. Did we stop it? No. But every year hundreds more people than were hurt there shoot themselves just by accident over in the USA.
So yes...tragitities could still occur, but overall the scale of tragities would be less, the frequency of tragities would be less, and the amount of accidental incidents would also be less. Basicly the occasional incident would be unpreventable and happen anyway, but thousands and thousands of them wouldn't.
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
buzzsaw wrote:polluxlm wrote:I'd rather ask: If arms were outlawed, would he not have been able to get a gun?
Yes, that is the better question.
No it's a distraction...because YES....sometimes people could do something like this anyway...but it's MUCH HARDER....which inherently makes the FREQUENCY of such incidents less.
You don't need to look any further than one of the victims here who in her blog is talking about a lucky escape from a PREVIOUS recent shooting!! The odds of something like that happening here are so rare it's insane..one person happening across two gun incidents? We've had like 1 gun massacre ever in Australia and even that was before they tightened the laws. Did we stop it? No. But every year hundreds more people than were hurt there shoot themselves just by accident over in the USA.
So yes...tragitities could still occur, but overall the scale of tragities would be less, the frequency of tragities would be less, and the amount of accidental incidents would also be less. Basicly the occasional incident would be unpreventable and happen anyway, but thousands and thousands of them wouldn't.
Monkey, it would literally take at least 100 years to get most of the guns that are out there off the street if the law was passed today. It will be a long, long time before it gets difficult to get a gun. So no, it's a valid question.
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
Cramer wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Because it's going to happen anyway.
It just happened and the argument is that if people had been armed then a crisis could have been averted or made less severe. However the bad guy obtained the weapons legally, so can't we also conclude that we'd have a much lower chance of something like this happening with stricter gun laws?
Lax American guns laws surely didn't save lives in this case, or when Giffords was shot in Arizona (very pro gun state) either. The default answer always seems to be "If everybody had guns then..." Why not simply explore the other side and say "If everybody did NOT have guns then...."
LOL - because that is NEVER going to happen no matter what laws you pass. I live in this thing called reality. It's not always good, but it is what it is. The US will break apart before guns are banned. Period.
You're assuming (while building a strawman) that it has to be black or white. We're talking about putting regulations in place that help prevent shit like this from happening.
The NRA apologist position seems to be "Well we can't stop ALL of these attacks from happening, so why bother?" To me that's just insane.
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
still don't get the analogy of someone getting an automatic assault rifle that fires hundreds of bullets to running over people with a car or stabbing or whatever else.
If James Holmes hadn't had a fucking automatic 100 round weapon, he never shoots that many people and had it not jammed... everyone would've died.
If people want to hunt or protect their home, I have no problem with people owning shotguns or .357 or .44 magnums or .38's etc.
but why do people need automatic weapons?
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
buzzsaw wrote:Are we going to ban matches and lighters or knives?
I would prefer we banned bad analogies first.
LOL!!!!!
Talking of cultural differences, this is THE ONE that seperates Americans from the rest of the western world. I'm right there with monkey on this.
But as someone said, to change this policy in the US takes at least a 100 years. How on Earth will you be able to remove all those guns?
But the fact stands that your constitution was written in a different time, and it was written based on a different world. It doesn't fit any longer. It was a mistake, but it's too late to change it.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater
duh....we trade gnr tickets for guns
FUND IT!! j/k 
