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Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
Group 3 doesn't like rock. He wasn't winning them over. Group 2 isn't any more likely than group 1 to accept the band; in fact I'd say they'd be less likely.
I think you're way overestimating the amount of people that were going to accept a completely new band. It's never happened in the history of the world. Why do you think Axl was going to be the one person to pull it off?
Because not everyone cares deeply about who's in the band. They care about if they like the music. People who had little background on the history never really had a chance to SEE the band or hear much from them either.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
I think you're way overestimating the amount of people that were going to accept a completely new band. It's never happened in the history of the world. Why do you think Axl was going to be the one person to pull it off?
Most of us like GNR because of all 5 guys. However there are casual people who just listen to the singers.
I think my Chris Cornell analogy is apt.
I enjoy Cornell's vocals. I like that he can sing prettily and also scream, I think he has a unique sounding voice. For this reason I've liked him in soundgarden, audioslave, and as a solo artist.
Even though the musicans who helped him in all of those bands are awesome.
I'm not saying that's everyone. I bet james cares more about soundgarden than me. Just as you and I might care more about GNR than person X.
I think it could have been similar to that.
Axl has a unique and talented voice. He could have recorded music with another band and there's a percentage of people who would have enjoyed him as a solo artist.
Another example is Ozzy. His post black sabbath career is celebrated by fans, and people still love him from sabbath too.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
buzzsaw wrote:Group 3 doesn't like rock. He wasn't winning them over. Group 2 isn't any more likely than group 1 to accept the band; in fact I'd say they'd be less likely.
I think you're way overestimating the amount of people that were going to accept a completely new band. It's never happened in the history of the world. Why do you think Axl was going to be the one person to pull it off?
Because not everyone cares deeply about who's in the band. They care about if they like the music. People who had little background on the history never really had a chance to SEE the band or hear much from them either.
Not everybody? Agreed. Far more than you think though. Most of those people that don't care are the younger generation; they aren't interested in what a 50 year old that they can't relate to at all has to say though.
His only chance was to win over the people that were on the fence about the band and the complete disaster of a release, lack of effort in mixing and marketing, and the general lack of quality (of the songs and the booklet/LPs) combined with the fact that even if someone survived the first few songs they got to Shackler's and turned it off killed any chance of success. People buy a GnR CD to hear GnR, not songs like Shackler's, and while yes, there were a few songs that sounded sort of UYI-esque, most of them were later in the tracklisting. As seen on the myspace streaming, most people didn't make it to those songs.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
buzzsaw wrote:I think you're way overestimating the amount of people that were going to accept a completely new band. It's never happened in the history of the world. Why do you think Axl was going to be the one person to pull it off?
Most of us like GNR because of all 5 guys. However there are casual people who just listen to the singers.
I think my Chris Cornell analogy is apt.
I enjoy Cornell's vocals. I like that he can sing prettily and also scream, I think he has a unique sounding voice. For this reason I've liked him in soundgarden, audioslave, and as a solo artist.
Even though the musicans who helped him in all of those bands are awesome.
I'm not saying that's everyone. I bet james cares more about soundgarden than me. Just as you and I might care more about GNR than person X.
I think it could have been similar to that.
Axl has a unique and talented voice. He could have recorded music with another band and there's a percentage of people who would have enjoyed him as a solo artist.
Another example is Ozzy. His post black sabbath career is celebrated by fans, and people still love him from sabbath too.
Ozzy went on as Ozzy. BS went into obscurity, though they still had a hardcore fan base.
Cornell didn't continue as Soundgarden. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Even the ac/dc situation is different...the rest of the band stayed together and the singer died; he wasn't booted/bought out/a quitter (or however you want to label the rest of the band). Plus while they were popular before, they didn't hit mainstream until Johnson was in the band.
Nobody has done it. Nobody. People have tried it, nobody has succeeded. I ask again...why did you think Axl was going to be the one to pull it off?
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
If AC/DC and Metallica can make big comebacks on mediocre material surely Axl can too.
For that to happen he needs to play ball though.
As the resident Metallica nut here, let me just step in and defend Metallica for a second!:laugh:
Death Magnetic was a welcomed return to Metallica's popular style of the 80's, even if it wasn't quite as good as their 80s material. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was mediocre, it was a solid-to-good album.
And Metallica didn't really "come back" anyway. That would imply that they went away. Aside from gaps between album releases (something they're famous for anyway) it's not as though they went anywhere, with their constant touring.
The only time that was in question for them, was the St Anger era where they nearly split up, but even with that bad album, they still had great sales.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
I'd have liked to have seen it under a different name too.
I was just saying guys like Cornell can chart stuff in a solo career when they're only famous from their original band efforts.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
Nobody is saying Axl couldn't have had a successful solo career (I don't think). What I'm saying is he had no chance continuing as GnR. While keeping the name may have provided certain things to him, it also kept things from him.
Guns N' Roses is bigger than Axl Rose. It sort of reminds me of Palpatine in ROTS when he says "I am the senate" - I think that's how Axl thought it would be (or was convinced by others it would be) and it just hasn't worked out that way. It wasn't going to work out that way. I said a long time ago that this had no chance no matter what and I still believe that. Sure, not promoting it and the lack of label support didn't help, but I'm not convinced it hurt either...I just don't think it mattered.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
The only thing the general public sees as GN'R is Axl and Slash, the rest of the band just doesn't matter. That's where I disagree with GN'R being bigger than Axl. It's only that way to certain people, who care enough. And I think its to the point now where Slash has established himself as his own commodity and his idenityt as "GN'R" is eroding. People look at him as Slash and Slash only. And that's to his credit for staying out there, releasing music, and establishing his identity.
And tbh, I don't think people look at Slash as the GN'R guitarist anymore, but the former guitarist, or the guy who used to be in the band. He's seen more as Slash than GN'R and has been, at least, for the last ten years.
I agree that GN'R will never have those early 90s album sales EVER AGAIN, no matter who is in the band. I can agree Axl doesn't relate to people. I thought it would be incredible for CD to sell 2 million copies (20 million predictions were absolutely absurd and were coming form THE most delusional fans/stalkers). But I do believe had it been released better, 6 years earlier, with a 2006 Axl with his shit together, I think it could have sold a million more copies than it did. That's just my opinion.
I think the music was better than you're giving it credit for. ESPN wrote an entire article on how awesome the music was. Would it have ruled the world? Hell no. It would have done better if Axl had his shit together.
And I don't think you can seperate Axl from GN'R. You just can't.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
Oh, I agree that unless he decides to launch a solo career, you are correct that they can't seperate him from GnR, but it's still bigger than him. I think we're thinking the same thing, but I don't think I'm saying it clearly.
At this point, maybe he can't even launch a solo record.
Re: Bumblefoot not happy? Speculating....
Oh, I agree that unless he decides to launch a solo career, you are correct that they can't seperate him from GnR, but it's still bigger than him. I think we're thinking the same thing, but I don't think I'm saying it clearly.
At this point, maybe he can't even launch a solo record.
Yup. He's forever attached to it, and even if he wants to drop it at some point, his identity is intwined with GN'R forever. There's no seperating himself with the fate of the name.
