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Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
buzzsaw wrote:No. They couldn't have made one great song and they didn't. The effort wasn't even put in.
And there you go. Whatever spark they had before that made them creative, no matter how much they hated each other, was gone by that point. Nothing they did sparked the other guy to make a single song, let alone an album. And from the sounds of it, they did everything they could to try and ignite that spark. From bringing back Izzy to bringing in Zakk. It just wasn't there.
This doesn't sound like two guys who didn't want to make another album:
1994
You realize you're backing up what I'm saying, right? It had nothing to do with a spark, it had to do with a lack of effort and cooperation.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
This spark stuff is nonsense to me.
The issue is entirely a personality issue.
It's got nothing at all to do with creativity.
The creativity is still there - they just need to end the war. The problem is entirely personal.
i dunno mate.. they both are still capable of exceptional, GnR-worthy material. but in terms of consistency there's nothing to indicate they're capable of creating a LP as wall-to-wall perfect as AFD or as stuffed full of gold as the UYI's.
& i mean Axl... i know i've been harping on about it ad nauseum, ironically enough, but the guy just doesn't have anything fresh or interesting to say imo. it's the same snarky trip since '91, except the lyrics have gotten immeasurably worse.
lookit this way - his creativity/lyrics/whatever are the same as a muscle, if you don't use it it atrophies & weakens, it decays. & a lot of that is due to his own work-ethic (for want of a better term). like the talent is everlasting, but it isn't as potent or energised as when he was at his peak. it's the same in a lot of walks of life - sport for example.
"the fire's gone out but the light is never dying" kinda trip.
i think the spark was gone. i think axl's muse was tired or non-existant. i think you can see that by his output & lack of output. & i think you can see it in the quality of slash's output too. they will never be as good as the guy's who couldn't fit YCBM onto AFD - & i mean, that's not slight against them. it's just they were perfection then. now? not so much. the spark's gone. that necessary factor that helped them write the best rock songs ever, it died out & all we were left with is talented guys instead of magic.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
Lack of output had little to nothing to do with Axl's muse or spark You guys are taking 1 + 1 and trying to make it = 3. You're taking the end result and trying to explain it away without having anything other than the end result to back up your story.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
no. the lack of output & the quality of the output both indicate a lack of quality/creativity/spark/muse.
i'm not trying to say anything for definite. i wouldn't. i'm just speculating.
if axl had something he needed to say/release, he'd have done it. like he needed to when he did AFD & UYI. he didn't need the fire after & it died. so it goes.
& besides, lack of output is p strong evidence. you have nothing to back up your story. so what, he sat in malibu writing & recording billions of great songs straight from his heart & then decided to release Shacklers instead? he still has the force that wrote SCoM & Patience, but he puts out Riad instead? where's your evidence lol?!
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
misterID wrote:buzzsaw wrote:No. They couldn't have made one great song and they didn't. The effort wasn't even put in.
And there you go. Whatever spark they had before that made them creative, no matter how much they hated each other, was gone by that point. Nothing they did sparked the other guy to make a single song, let alone an album. And from the sounds of it, they did everything they could to try and ignite that spark. From bringing back Izzy to bringing in Zakk. It just wasn't there.
This doesn't sound like two guys who didn't want to make another album:
1994
You realize you're backing up what I'm saying, right? It had nothing to do with a spark, it had to do with a lack of effort and cooperation.
Uh, no... That creative spark trumps anything. If Slash showed up with Coma or Axl with NR, they would have worked that shit out. That recording shows how excited Axl was to get Slash's dats.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
I disagree john.
I think Axl is a reactionary artist - he writes about things that happen to him and their emotional content. For example the lyrics of AFD are mostly about things he saw or did during life on the street, the UYI records are mostly about his relationships with women, and the media, and quite a bit about the transition to fame.
But his writing in the chinese era is the same - it's still about what happens to him - it's just firstly that less dramatic things happen now he's a wealthy reclusive millionaire than a homeless shitkicker - so it's less common for a life event to inspire him and secondly his new role as overseer of all instruments must slow things down stupidly - as Izzy/Slash would have delivered close to done instrumentals - but you'd get a real mash up of stuff from pitman/bucket/huge.
However the songs are still about what happens to him - some of it is direct - like how IRS is about the lawsuits, prostitute is his thoughts on selling out as an artist, scraped an examination of what it's like to experience highs and lows in confidence. But some of it is much deeper - catcher is very interesting lyrically, or say TWAT - it's a song about his love life but with the added depth of being retrospective , or SOD - which is not only about the girl - it's also about how the nature of memory is and the realisation that you can be longing after something that never really was. I think these are great themes for songs and very interesting.
But the key I think is something that he experiences. He wrote jungle when feeling threatened getting off a bus, and he wrote Shackler's Revenge when he was told that the song Mr Brownstone inspired a kid to go on a killing spree. There's still a spark - there's just a lot of things in the way these days because Axl perhaps isn't as suited to running the whole corporation of GNR let alone having the sole say on every step of everything, as he is to being a genius lyricist and melody writer.
As for slash - I don't think see a loss of spark there. He's put out 6 full albums since GNR and you could probably make it more like 9 if you start including guest apperances and things. The end product was never GNR due to the absence of the others - but many of the guitar riffs and solos in isolation are truly world standard - I don't think AFD era slash would even be capible of playing the solos he's doing live every night now.
There is no loss of spark - it's only about personality conflicts - and maybe with Axl whatever broader unhappiness that drives him to make some of the choices he does that we don't like. But looking at each man's most recent songs - I am convinced that were they ever to see eye to eye as partners against the world again - like they did in those days of AFD - they'd still be able to write some fucking amazing shit - and in some ways it would be a lot deeper and interesting artistically now I think - due to their age and perspective.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
The point you're missing is that they didn't go into this not wanting to work with each other. You can hear it in that interview that they were excited about making that next album. Whatever was there before, obviously wasn't there anymore. They brought in different people to help make that album and ignite that spark, from Izzy to Zakk and they couldn't even complete one song. I think what they wanted was different, the enviorment that solidified them was gone, their musical taste had changed and at that moment, it was time to move on.
Could they do something today? If Slash brought in some stuff he did on his first solo album, I'd say yes, I'm positive Axl would jump on some of that stuff. The second? No way in hell.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
^ Yeah but the timeline you're talking about is AFTER the relationship was irrevocably fucked!
By that time Axl ALREADY thinks Slash is a devil tricking him into stuff, and Slash is already butt hurt about being asked to be an employee in his own band....
they sucked it up for an instance and tried to get along but in the end cooperation wasn't possible because BOTH of them carry around a truck load of unresolved issues.
As Axl said at RRHOF - he'd need an apology for every little thing before he can go back, and lets not forget canter says that Slash thinks some of those things never even happened. And just because Slash decides to co-operate for a session or two doesn't mean he's fundamentally ok with having his solos redone by a lesser talent who wasn't formally in the band...with being an employee...and with giving Axl power to hold them all to ransom at gigs. They both tried to move on - but it's like getting back with an ex that cheated on you - the damage is fucking done...
Sure...they couldn't ignite the spark in that time period...but I maintain it's because the RELATIONSHIP between them was fucked up and that blocked the creativity....not because there is no creativity left.....
You know that if they could have found a way to be friends again then all of a sudden Axl would realise Anastasia is a great riff and add something killer to the song, and Slash would put aside his love for faster numbers and add a world-altering blues solo to TIL....the building blocks are all there....but you can't work with the devil and both of them think the other is.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
Are we talking about Paul Huge? Because all I know of what he did was lay some guitar parts next to Slash on one cover song in 1996 at the end of his stay in the band.
And the rest is just your assumptions, no offense. Cantor said Slash got angry over Axl nixing the Snakepit songs, which could be the DATS they're discussing in that inetrview (or not). And they've always had a freyed relationship (working together over the phone when recording UYI, not to mention a riff that was there before AFD -- the music masked or eased that riff, but once that was gone...) but the evidence shows they tried to make something happen to find a middle ground but couldn't.
And I don't think TIL was/is Slash's cup of tea, but I could be wrong about that considering Saint Is A Sinner Too (which I think would have been cool for Axl). And I still don't get the Anastasia love. It has some good parts, but overall, meh...
Again, I think it would be more likely that they could work together today than they could have back then, just on musical style and taste. I just don't know how open he would be to doing the music Axl wants to do today.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
Are we talking about Paul Huge? Because all I know of what he did was lay some guitar parts next to Slash on one cover song in 1996 at the end of his stay in the band.
1994, to be exact.
He also went to the 1996 sessions, which were the last ones with Slash in the band. I understand he remained in the band from 1996 to 2002. He has more than one writing credit on CD.
At least, give the man credit where it's due.
Cantor said Slash got angry over Axl nixing the Snakepit songs, which could be the DATS they're discussing in that inetrview (or not).
They are, most likely, those same tapes.
"The coolest omen," says Slash, "was the night I recorded three songs and mixed them that night, which I normally wouldn't do. I went to bed with the DAT in my hand, all 14 songs. [...] And it was like Godzilla came to town. [...] The time was 4:31 a.m., Jan. 17, 1994. The Godzilla in question was L.A.'s 6.7 earthquake." (Slash, Rolling Stone, 04/95)
On January 17th, some two weeks after the Rockline interview, Slash finished up the Snakepit demos. He never set out to do a solo album, he wrote for Guns. That's when Slash and Axl would've started to have issues, which were said to have dragged for months.
The whole Snakepit conundrum happened in early '94. Gilby was still in the band when they were rejected.
the evidence shows they tried to make something happen to find a middle ground but couldn't.
They tried a lot. There was the Snakepit material (by Slash, Gilby, Matt & co), there were the last Gilby sessions after that in around April '94, and the Sympathy sessions in October '94, by which time the atmosphere had gotten poisonous, the Zakk sessions in January '95, post-Zakk sessions before Slash left to promote Snakepit...
