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Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
buzzsaw wrote:Have you ever asked yourself why companies aren't hiring? Why banks aren't loaning? Why people are saving instead of spending? I keep seeing people pointing out that these things are happening, but I've yet to see anybody actually discuss why it's happening.
I think once you can answer those questions, and I mean REALLY answer those questions, you'll understand why things can't continue the way they are.
No, they're waiting to see if Romney will win to bring down their taxes to the lowest they've ever been. Another reason that companies aren't hiring when they can is that during the recession and layoffs, they trimmed their working force and had remaining employees cover the work of those layoffs, increasing their workload and hours without raising pay. Now that these comanies are fiscally sound and have bounced back, it's helped profits to keep fewer employees, while stretching their work force thin. I've heard this from my own ears.
And the election is over. Unless Romney wins all the swing states, including the ones he's behind near double digits, Obama is going to win.
They've been waiting for 4 years? Did this all start the day Obama was elected?
If Obama wins, this country is going to go deeper and deeper into debt and deeper into recession. I don't like either of them, so I'm certainly not supporting Romney, but I'm calling it like it is. Obama is trying to use business to save everybody, but businesses aren't going to save anybody but themselves.
Maybe trickle down eceonomics doesn't work the way democrats want it to work, but it works a hell of a lot better than raising taxes on the people/businesses that hire people. Businesses are about self preservation. Banks are about self preservation. Businesses/banks/people that have cash are holding on to it to protect themselves. You blame the business, I understand exactly what the business is doing.
Let me let you in on a little secret: if businesses aren't profiting, they close. They aren't there to break even. They aren't there to support underperforming people. That's not their purpose. Their obligation is to the stockholders or the owner(s) and NOBODY else. Not you. Not me. Not their employees. They hire the people they need and not any more than they need. Business has ALWAYS been this way. It SHOULD always be this way. They aren't there to just hire people because they can afford to just like you aren't obligated to buy anything that you don't want to from a business and you aren't obligated to hire someone to work for you if you can afford to.
They aren't going to create jobs for the sake of creating jobs. Sure, in theory we'd all be better off if they did, right? More people would have money to spend, they would spend it and businesses would need more employees and the cycle continues forever. Sounds wonderful! Except it doesn't work. People don't spend the money. They do the same things the businesses do...they hold on to it because the future is so uncertain. Are you going to blame the people for doing the same thing you blame the businesses for?
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
If Obama wins, this country is going to go deeper and deeper into debt...
The same thing applies to Mitt Romney and the Republican Party. Take a look at what happened to the national debt under Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2. Reagan and Bush 1 combined to triple the debt in 12 years and Bush 2 nearly doubled it in 8 years. Obama has increased it by 55% in 4 years, which puts him on pace to more than double it in 8 years. Considering it was already over $10.6T when he took office, the looming $20T figure by 2016 is scary to think about. In any event, the spending issue is a problem for both parties. We need a balanced budget amendment in the Constitution.
The bigger problem to me is the Federal Reserve. That institution has more power than anything else in the country. It is a private central bank that has no problem printing tons of cash and then charging the American taxpayers interest on that money. True patriots at the Federal Reserve. 
FWIW, the Founding Fathers were strongly against a private central bank. The bankers did all kinds of maneuvering through the decades to get it into place. The Fed is flat-out evil IMHO. Such a small group of people should not have that kind of control over our economy and currency. When you mix this with the fascist laws signed by Bush (PATRIOT Act) and Obama (NDAA), we are setting ourselves up for a full takeover by the oligarchs at the top of the food chain. Scary shit.
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
I guess the difference is that I respect what Reagan and Bush 1 were spending the money on more than I respect what Obama has been spending it on. I've been on the record in saying that spending needs be lower across the board and that defense spending can come down without hurting those in the military by cutting out corruption and waste.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
I guess the difference is that I respect what Reagan and Bush 1 were spending the money on more than I respect what Obama has been spending it on. I've been on the record in saying that spending needs be lower across the board and that defense spending can come down without hurting those in the military by cutting out corruption and waste.
I just see a bunch of shit that got dumped on the taxpayers' back. Giving people a tax cut all the time sounds nice until you realize that half the time we don't end up paying for it. The thing just gets heaped onto the national credit card, just like ObamaCare or any war spending. Both parties are guilty of "giving" us tax cuts during the last 30 years and then not paying for them because they won't cut spending in other areas. Eventually it all keeps adding up and then the interest on the debt keeps piling up as well. Just a ridiculous situation. If only there had been a balanced budget amendment in place about 20 years ago. We could have turned this thing around when it was still $5T or less.
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
They've been waiting for 4 years? Did this all start the day Obama was elected?
If Obama wins, this country is going to go deeper and deeper into debt and deeper into recession. I don't like either of them, so I'm certainly not supporting Romney, but I'm calling it like it is. Obama is trying to use business to save everybody, but businesses aren't going to save anybody but themselves.
Maybe trickle down eceonomics doesn't work the way democrats want it to work, but it works a hell of a lot better than raising taxes on the people/businesses that hire people. Businesses are about self preservation. Banks are about self preservation. Businesses/banks/people that have cash are holding on to it to protect themselves. You blame the business, I understand exactly what the business is doing.
Let me let you in on a little secret: if businesses aren't profiting, they close. They aren't there to break even. They aren't there to support underperforming people. That's not their purpose. Their obligation is to the stockholders or the owner(s) and NOBODY else. Not you. Not me. Not their employees. They hire the people they need and not any more than they need. Business has ALWAYS been this way. It SHOULD always be this way. They aren't there to just hire people because they can afford to just like you aren't obligated to buy anything that you don't want to from a business and you aren't obligated to hire someone to work for you if you can afford to.
They aren't going to create jobs for the sake of creating jobs. Sure, in theory we'd all be better off if they did, right? More people would have money to spend, they would spend it and businesses would need more employees and the cycle continues forever. Sounds wonderful! Except it doesn't work. People don't spend the money. They do the same things the businesses do...they hold on to it because the future is so uncertain. Are you going to blame the people for doing the same thing you blame the businesses for?
Yes, they have been waiting four years. The day of the inaguration, the GOP and business lobbyists decided to tank the economy for this election. This is fact. This meeting happened. It was a strategy. The first time in our history you needed 60 majority votes to pass anything.
You can't do anything about the debt until we shut down the Bush tax cuts, which is what is hemorrhaging money right now, and no amount of cutting will do anything to fix it. It needs revenue.
You want tax cuts for business, make them incentivized. You're supporting giving them MORE tax cuts at the same time THEY'RE LEAVING THE USA. There's nothing making them stay here, or hire Americans, or use American made materials. They're leaving. They're taking the tax cuts, using every loophole they can, making max profits off Americans and not paying back in. That's what we are arguing here.
Why anyone would be against incentivized tax cuts for business is beyond me. I was listening to (REAL) Republicans this morning who were saying what a disgrace it is business and millionaires are paying 15% in taxes for absolutely no reason.
Here's another secret, see the economy right now... remember how it was in 2009? That's the way it's going to look under Romney. The top 1%, who they are admittedly catering to, have never been this successful in the history of America. Romney wants to cut their taxes even more.
And guess what, you'll be paying for it. What will happen when you can't spend as much money as you usually do? And people like you? yeah.... The economy tanks.
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. You're lumping people in with businesses.
I never said I wanted tax cuts. I'm fairly sure I said in another thread that I was in favor of making sure the rich pay their share. I actually prefer a flat tax. No loopholes, no write-offs. I just eliminated 3/4 of the IRS. I just saved you more money than either party has proposed and made more money for the gov't at the same time. Sadly, none of this is going to happen because they don't want it to happen.
I think you're drinking way too much democratic kool-aid. I learned a long time ago to stop talking politics with democrats because they don't know what they are talking about. Most don't even realize their party is part of what is keeping them down, but blame republicans and businesses...kind of like you are here. Then they start accusing me of being a republican, which I am not. Since I know where this conversation is going, let's just drop it here.
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
No, you're throwing out sound bytes and not understanding the issues. You keep talking about you're happier with what Reagan and Bush spent money on, when their spending put us into the second worst recession next to this one. Which is what got Clinton elected. You keep talking about things you have no understanding on. From healthcare to tax cuts. You say you're not a republican but keep repeating their talking points, verbatum with absolutely nothing to back them up. I have always backed up what I've said, you never have. Just your opinion.
Again, tax cuts are kind of important here, which you're ignoring...
A flat tax would ruin the economy even more. It's a fantasy and a pipe dream. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/bl … 11.html#p1
You cannot fix the deficit without revenue. Tax cuts have never, ever created jobs. The country has always been more prosperous with higher tax rates. Trickle down economics has never worked and have always sent us into a recession. Those are facts.
All I know is that you're butt hurt over obamacare.
Re: Election 2012-Issue #1 labor unions/right to work states
Dude, I don't watch the news or listen to whoever is saying whatever. I speak my mind, my opinions. You seem a little upset that I pegged you perfectly...your post just proves it. When are you going to learn you just aren't going to win an argument with me? I can't lose because I have facts on my side. Always. You have what appear to be talking points that are easliy refuted and have been in both this thread and the obamacare thread. You think a flat tax is fantasy land, but obama's vision is great? Unbelieveable. No, what we know is taxing the people that have money never works. The only reason we had a boom in the Clinton era was the .com world. That's it. Nothing Billy did created that. The fact is that the economy has been in shambles since long before any of us were alive. Made no difference who was in charge. You want to talk facts? Suck on that fact for a while.
I'm not butt hurt over anything. I'm not poor and I never will be. I do feel sorry for the poor who keep thinking things like obamacare are helping them when all they are doing is making them more reliant on the gov't and less likely to ever break the cycle of poverty that they keep themselves in. None of this will affect me at all.
