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Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
faldor wrote:Things have been going at the speed of light lately in comparison to what we're normally accustomed to. At this point, nothing would shock me. And for once, I mean that in a good way.
Not to sound overly optimistic, but it's all good from where I'm sitting.
I find it hugely amusing that after all the castigation of Beta and Team Brazil as "Colonel Tom Parker" types leeching off Axl on the web forums, they've turned out to be the ones who are Getting Things Done.
yea but the other side of that has been touched upon before.
who was stopping things getting done before? was it them and/or axl? know what i mean?
things might've got done before if they hadn't put up obstacles or weren't a go-between w/axl & previous management. maybe they were guilty of some double talkin jive, y'know?
we'll prob never know. it just seems a bit rich to blame the boatload of managers before them for not getting shit done, or trying to play the reunion card.
there's been too many managers who've been & gone for the managers themselves to be the problem. they can't all have been doing the same shit, can they?
the only constant in that time has been beta & her family. & from a glance, speculating, it would seem they've kinda been playing this game for a long time trying to get that management role (which they had in all but name, really).
what i mean is: are they getting things done now because they helped stop things getting done prior??
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
I find it hugely amusing that after all the castigation of Beta and Team Brazil as "Colonel Tom Parker" types leeching off Axl on the web forums, they've turned out to be the ones who are Getting Things Done.
Well the theory people have is that to win leverage over his emotions they obstruficated communication between Axl and most of his relationships - business or personal.
Anyone with potential to get more power than them was either shut out or painted as a villain or both.
This process has prevented a reunion, caused the departure of bucket and others, and led to some of the most "can do" business managers in music being unable to get any results from GNR.
Then once Axl is emotionally reliant on team brazil as his only family that haven't betrayed him - they demand no more external managers or they leave - thus gaining control of the business side too.
Now once in full control, they stop sabotaging stuff, and whamo...team brazil are the ones who get things done.
Not saying it's the truth, just what some people think is the case.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
I suspect that literally every person who's tried to manage GN'R before has been approaching the job with a view to engineering a reunion at some point. Beta and Team Brazil are the only ones who are actually interested in the current band as a going concern.
Yeah, the marketing is a bit... deceptive, using the old band's reputation to sell the new band – but we're finally getting the live DVDs, the promo, the interviews that we should've had back in '06. And tbh, until we get new music, the new band doesn't have anything to trade on BUT the GN'R name. So with any luck we'll get some new music soon, too.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
I suspect that literally every person who's tried to manage GN'R before has been approaching the job with a view to engineering a reunion at some point. Beta and Team Brazil are the only ones who are actually interested in the current band as a going concern.
Yeah, the marketing is a bit... deceptive, using the old band's reputation to sell the new band – but we're finally getting the live DVDs, the promo, the interviews that we should've had back in '06. And tbh, until we get new music, the new band doesn't have anything to trade on BUT the GN'R name. So with any luck we'll get some new music soon, too.
Yeah, it all depends on how you want to view it. You want to look at it as Team Brazil prevented a bunch of cool stuff from happening. Stuff that Axl most likely didn't want to do. That's one line of thinking. Or, MAYBE they were looking out for Axl and doing what they thought was best for him. It's impossible to know unless someone can get a hold of Doc Brown's Delorean and we can go back in time and mess with the space time continuum. Otherwise, it's all pure speculation. Axl had/has no interest in a reunion. I'm not sure he needed Beta to formulate that opinion. Not that she didn't feed the flames. But I don't think things would've been much different if she was out of the picture. In fact, they could be much worse. If you can imagine that.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
Axl has a history with deferring to "unhelpful" outsiders when doing business. Remember, this is the man that made all potential staffers submit their photos for "aura analysis" by Yoda before they were hired. Fuck their experience and professionalism!!
This is a man who blew off huge stadium gigs in the UYI days because this old charlatan would tell him that the ley lines were off on the area or some other such hocus-pocus shit.
If you are a hard-nosed manager who lives & dies by the bottom line, this shit would be almost impossible to deal with.
More importantly, if you are living in Axl's house for 20 years, learning what his biggest fears and neuroses are and you're on a wage from him, the temptation to use that knowledge to further your own situation to secure your future and get more of the spoils must be unbelievable.
I still find it amazing that Beta could describe Axl as "more than a son" to her. How the fuck would anyone's child really feel about that comment if it came from one of their parents...you'd be gutted.
Hey though, the kids aint't gutted at all! Why? Cause comments like that from Mom helped set everybody up. Cha CHING!
What GNR/AXl are doing these days, is bog-standard band shit. The level of excitement here just proves that we'll take anything at this stage.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
I can't fault anyone for being pessimistic. Things just feel a little different this time around. They're certainly moving in the right direction and they're finally doing things that normal bands do. All this recent activity can only act as a form of goodwill towards the record company and better the chances of getting new music released. At least, I'd like to believe.
Obviously they still have a ways to go, but they're certainly trending in the right direction.
What things are different and what things are they doing that other bands do?
Other bands don't do Vegas shows unless they are washed up. I've seen people try to claim otherwise, then they list a bunch of once famous, now washed up bands/artists as their proof. Other bands don't replace everybody and claim the previous lineups accolades as their own in a promotional video exclusively featuring music written by the previous lineups. If the best thing we have is Axl going to TV to promote something that says it's over and said promotional video, I'd argue it's actually a step back.
The record company isn't going to see this as goodwill. They are going to see Axl promoting something that doesn't make them a dime. He'll be promoting his video and his concerts. There's nothing in it for the record company.
Lets not try to make this into something that it isn't. It's wonderful that he's doing an interview (however lame the interview might be). It's cool that they are releasing a pay per view that was cancelled due to lack of interest as a DVD. CD II doesn't start now. It ended about 4 weeks after CD was released and sales dropped off the face of the earth.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
faldor wrote:Things have been going at the speed of light lately in comparison to what we're normally accustomed to. At this point, nothing would shock me. And for once, I mean that in a good way.
Not to sound overly optimistic, but it's all good from where I'm sitting.
I find it hugely amusing that after all the castigation of Beta and Team Brazil as "Colonel Tom Parker" types leeching off Axl on the web forums, they've turned out to be the ones who are Getting Things Done.
My educated guess is that Team Brazil probably have some type of finger in the financial pie this time if things happen under their watch. So unlike in previous situations maybe it makes good financial sense to them to get Axl to do shit ths time around. previously it probably meant nothing to them other than the risk of rocking the boat and upsetting Ax and threatening their power base.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
faldor wrote:I can't fault anyone for being pessimistic. Things just feel a little different this time around. They're certainly moving in the right direction and they're finally doing things that normal bands do. All this recent activity can only act as a form of goodwill towards the record company and better the chances of getting new music released. At least, I'd like to believe.
Obviously they still have a ways to go, but they're certainly trending in the right direction.
What things are different and what things are they doing that other bands do?
Other bands don't do Vegas shows unless they are washed up. I've seen people try to claim otherwise, then they list a bunch of once famous, now washed up bands/artists as their proof. Other bands don't replace everybody and claim the previous lineups accolades as their own in a promotional video exclusively featuring music written by the previous lineups. If the best thing we have is Axl going to TV to promote something that says it's over and said promotional video, I'd argue it's actually a step back.
The record company isn't going to see this as goodwill. They are going to see Axl promoting something that doesn't make them a dime. He'll be promoting his video and his concerts. There's nothing in it for the record company.
Lets not try to make this into something that it isn't. It's wonderful that he's doing an interview (however lame the interview might be). It's cool that they are releasing a pay per view that was cancelled due to lack of interest as a DVD. CD II doesn't start now. It ended about 4 weeks after CD was released and sales dropped off the face of the earth.
Again, you can view it that way if you want. I think it shows Universal or other notables in the biz that Axl may be willing to actually play along for once. Thus they'd have more faith in dealing with him than they had 3 years ago.
I never said they're breaking all the rules and world records by doing things no other bands do. That's the point. They actually seem to be functioning as a normal band now. That's a pretty big step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
It all depends on how you view it. If you want to focus on all the negatives, then sure, it's not going to look so great. There are positives there though. Granted, they haven't turned into the most progressive, forward thinking, and fan friendly band overnight. But things look a lot better than they did last week, last Spring, 3 years ago. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I see that as progress.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
I can see what you mean.
6 years ago there was no dvds, no website, no streaming, tours were more questionable, no tv interviews and stuff....while this stuff is all sort of expected it does seem that they're finally functioning more like a professional unit.
I think Axl's still got a few great songs left in him too. So it does give me some hope.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live in London (Airing on Vh1 Classic)
They aren't going to completely disregard 20 years of history for one "interview" that is nothing but self-promoting. That's not how business works, that's not how business people think.
There's nothing normal about this other than it's normal to want/need more money. Maybe it's normal for washed up bands to squeeze out every last dime they can get. To me this is all about $$$$ and the fact that most of it is staying in house. Team Brazil is nothing more than team sham right now. I don't understand how anybody could be that excited about this and I really don't understand how anyone can see this as a step forward. How many times have people said "well, maybe this is the first step..." and nothing happens?
Axl Rose's big comeback is on Kimmel? I mean is he going on right after the latest person to get booted from Dancing with the Stars (another venue for washed up celebs or c-listers)? Why Kimmel?Surely Letterman or Leno would love to have him. He could do one of the morning shows in Times Square before going to bed in the morning.
People are sitting here celebrating and calling this "normal" and I'm sitting here going none of this makes any sense if there's any sort of an effort made to move forward. None. I have no idea what you are seeing if you see progress.
