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Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
The point was all of those other bands went through conflicts and potentially band-ending and life threatening dramas. Only GNR never found a way out of it.
Yeah I got that. I just don't agree with assigning 100% of the blame for the breakup on Axl. Members of those other bands made concessions. That didn't happen in GNR. Axl isn't blameless, but he's hardly the only one at fault.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
monkeychow wrote:The point was all of those other bands went through conflicts and potentially band-ending and life threatening dramas. Only GNR never found a way out of it.
Yeah I got that. I just don't agree with assigning 100% of the blame for the breakup on Axl. Members of those other bands made concessions. That didn't happen in GNR. Axl isn't blameless, but he's hardly the only one at fault.
Actually, he is. That's the responsibility of leadership.
Read this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--john- … 05133.html
That is leadership. Recognizing that it's YOUR job as the leader to compromise and admit to mistakes to hold the thing together.
Axl wanted all the good that came with being "the guy" but none of the responsibility that comes with it. All this time people have claimed he "had to" take control of the band becausethe other guys were druggies. He wasn't any more prepared to lead than they were, though his issue was his mental instability instead of drugs. He didn't "have to" do anything. He wasn't willing to make concessions. His solution was to take control and force the concessions from the others. That makes it 100% his fault. Sure, others played a role, but at the end of the day this (and all the shit that has come since then) is all on one person, and it's only that way because that's the way he wanted it to be. Well, he got it.
People (and this happens all over in life) all want the power to make decisions and do what they want. They want the glory that comes with leading, but they don't want the responsibility that goes with it too. Axl is very human. He makes mistakes. The difference is that he doesn't accept responsibility for those mistakes. Ever. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, but when you're in charge (and he is in charge), it's ultimately all your fault. The second he took control of the name, everything became his responsibility. By definition, that means he's 100% responsible for the breakup.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
It's always tough to compare sports and the music industry. You're right in a sense, but I don't think it's completely the same thing. Both are businesses, but a good coach has much more power over his team than a good singer has over his band. A good owner will stay out of the coaches way and let him do his thing because the coach knows far more about football than the owner. Axl had management in his ear telling him what was the right thing to do, thinking they knew what was best for the band or more likely themselves in a business sense. I don't think it quite worked out how anyone planned or hoped, so apparently it wasn't the right thing to do.
Look, I certainly wouldn't nominate Axl for manager of the year. The evidence is quite clear on that front. He also doesn't seem to be the easiest guy to work with either due to the turnover in managers and band members alike. I still don't think he deserves all the blame though. There were many hands in the cookie jar back then. A lot of tough decisions were made when the guys were still quite naïve.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
It's always tough to compare sports and the music industry. You're right in a sense, but I don't think it's completely the same thing. Both are businesses, but a good coach has much more power over his team than a good singer has over his band. A good owner will stay out of the coaches way and let him do his thing because the coach knows far more about football than the owner. Axl had management in his ear telling him what was the right thing to do, thinking they knew what was best for the band or more likely themselves in a business sense. I don't think it quite worked out how anyone planned or hoped, so apparently it wasn't the right thing to do.
Look, I certainly wouldn't nominate Axl for manager of the year. The evidence is quite clear on that front. He also doesn't seem to be the easiest guy to work with either due to the turnover in managers and band members alike. I still don't think he deserves all the blame though. There were many hands in the cookie jar back then. A lot of tough decisions were made when the guys were still quite naïve.
Oh, I totally agree with most of this, and it is a difficult comparison. I don't think Axl would do it the same way if he had it to do all over again either (not that he would admit to that). Having said that, I refuse to believe he had no idea what was happening with the name and I do hold him responsible for everything after that as a result. It's just my opinion...
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Oh, I totally agree with most of this, and it is a difficult comparison. I don't think Axl would do it the same way if he had it to do all over again either (not that he would admit to that). Having said that, I refuse to believe he had no idea what was happening with the name and I do hold him responsible for everything after that as a result. It's just my opinion...
I agree with that. I don't know who else you could hold responsible for the direction GNR has taken SINCE the breakup other than Axl. Like you said, I don't think he really WANTED Slash or Duff to leave the band. He wanted them to stay in on HIS terms. They didn't want any part of that. I doubt he thought it would be as difficult as it has been to carry on without them.
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Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Actually he did begin to resent Slash and even said he should had been in the band after Lies. And he wanted Robin Finck to play lead, not Slash. I think he wanted Slash out cause Slash had TOO much power.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
buzzsaw wrote:Oh, I totally agree with most of this, and it is a difficult comparison. I don't think Axl would do it the same way if he had it to do all over again either (not that he would admit to that). Having said that, I refuse to believe he had no idea what was happening with the name and I do hold him responsible for everything after that as a result. It's just my opinion...
I agree with that. I don't know who else you could hold responsible for the direction GNR has taken SINCE the breakup other than Axl. Like you said, I don't think he really WANTED Slash or Duff to leave the band. He wanted them to stay in on HIS terms. They didn't want any part of that. I doubt he thought it would be as difficult as it has been to carry on without them.
I mean after the name change, not after the breakup.
Re: Chris Cornell: "Guns N 'Roses were all normal types minus one"
Actually he did begin to resent Slash and even said he should had been in the band after Lies. And he wanted Robin Finck to play lead, not Slash. I think he wanted Slash out cause Slash had TOO much power.
Slash didn't have any power, even the band pretty much admits Axl was calling the business shots by 1989, thus the Mr. Brownstone incident at the LA Forum. Slash was too much a fucking junkie to have that much power.
What Axl HATED about Slash was the guy was just... Liked. People liked him MORE, trusted him MORE, wanted to deal with him MORE, even though Axl actually was the puppet master even then.
Slash's post-GN'R career pretty much proves he didn't have that much power. Sure Slash has been successful, but to say "more successful than Axl" is not really fair in the aspect... Axl never tried. Slash wins for sure, but by default because Axl never even attempted to do ANYTHING. The few times we've seen in the past that Axl did minimal promo for himself it was worldwide news instantly. I'd say that's pretty remarkable for a guy who's done jack shit since 1993,
Slash has BUSTED HIS ASS to get the promo he's gotten, which is rock star. He's arguably the most instantly recognizable rock guitarist in the world, but he worked his tail off to get that title. Shoving yourself down people's throats to get recognition versus just getting it because your beloved and/or infamous is a different story.
Axl still in the end holds the most power and always has. Slash never ever replaced Axl -- ever. No matter how many horrendous vocalists he gets to work with, short of Michael Jackson. Axl on the other hand, never ever replaced Slash. So on that level they neutralize each other. Where the advantage goes to Axl imo is that Slash in the end still turned his back on Guns N' Roses money. Slash money is A-L-O-T. But it'd be even more with GN'R, and he quit that job. Sure Axl quit the partnership and took the name, but offered Slash & Duff the same financial percentages in the new partnership. Slash is "no" to that.
So on that level = 
has a slight and ever so slight advantage on Slash in 2012 imo, and I still think it didn't come down to power as much as it was Axl feeling Slash's degenerative nature and unpredictability was a threat to the band's integrity and ultimately his financial security going into the future.
