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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Cramer wrote:The status quo will do nothing quick.
Anybody who thinks this isn't a gun control issue should have their head examined.
Anybody that thinks gun control solves this needs to have their head examined.
It worked in every other in the western civilization man. Like our Australian mate her says, it's so bloody obvious to everyone else but Americans.
After 22/7 the first thing we looked at was stricter gun control to avoid something like that happening again, our laws had too many loop holes.
No one talking of banning guns, my neighbour got rifles and goes elk hunting each autumn. It's about controlling who gets what.
The stats are obvious for ALL to see. This stuff, with rare exceptions, happens in America.
People blame mentally ill people and so on, so you're basically saying Americans are either more dumb or more sick than the rest of us.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
But the majority of these shooters aren't getting their guns through legal means, where stricter gun laws wouldn't have done anything to prevent it.
Again, not saying I'm against stricter gun laws, I think it's a god idea. Just throwing that out there.
It's not about being dumb, or whatever. It's about understanding the stuation. If the majority of people comitting these crimes ARE in fact mentally ill, it should give you a pretty good clue as to where to focus.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
But the majority of these shooters aren't getting their guns through legal means, where stricter gun laws wouldn't have done anything to prevent it.
Again, not saying I'm against stricter gun laws, I think it's a god idea. Just throwing that out there.
It's not about being dumb, or whatever. It's about understanding the stuation. If the majority of people comitting these crimes ARE in fact mentally ill, it should give you a pretty good clue as to where to focus.
So how do they get them easier in the US than say Australia? Yet again because too many people have guns and should not have them. At one point easy access has to stop, and it has to stop with the buyer. Less people with guns, less people will gain illegal access. The statistics are all there to see, look at Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Italy....whatever. But Buzz has a point with the country being infested with guns, u can't get rid of them now which leads me to believe that it's too late. A negative view in itself, but culture wise - this will take time.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
misterID wrote:But the majority of these shooters aren't getting their guns through legal means, where stricter gun laws wouldn't have done anything to prevent it.
Again, not saying I'm against stricter gun laws, I think it's a god idea. Just throwing that out there.
It's not about being dumb, or whatever. It's about understanding the stuation. If the majority of people comitting these crimes ARE in fact mentally ill, it should give you a pretty good clue as to where to focus.
So how do they get them easier in the US than say Australia? Yet again because too many people have guns and should not have them. At one point easy access has to stop, and it has to stop with the buyer. Less people with guns, less people will gain illegal access. The statistics are all there to see, look at Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Italy....whatever. But Buzz has a point with the country being infested with guns, u can't get rid of them now which leads me to believe that it's too late. A negative view in itself, but culture wise - this will take time.
That ship has sailed. And I still don't think people are getting the point.
The one thing that bothers me is all the talk about the instrument and not the perpetrator. It's a fact that in communities with high rates of gun related homicide have identical characteristics: Poverty. Failing education systems. High drug and alcohol abuse. And unstable homes. If you address these things, like investing in the communities education system, improving the economy in said city, tackling the social problems, ie: curbing teen pregnancy and invest in prevention of drugs and alcohol abuse, that dramatically brings down the rate of crimes and murder. No gun law, no matter how strict, can accomplish that. That says everything right there.
Again, we have to seriously look at mental illness, and in almost all of these cases, from Columbine to the theater massacre, there were warning signs and people had actually warned the authorities, or at the very least, told someone to try to prevent the person from going off, but nothing was done. If that means creating a database of people who've been institutionalized, including a way for doctors to put patients in a database who are potential threats (meaning, including this in a gun background check) and recognizing early on, even school children, signs of mental instability and addressing it there, then that should seriously be looked into, imo.
Strict gun laws won't do anything. I'm hearing a lot from people who are so staunch and passionate on this issue that they aren't even making a clear point on how to prevent it, just casting judgement on American culture (sadly) and venting. I want something that works. It's in our constitution the right to own a gun and there are too many guns out there to do anything about it. But instead of hyperbole, let's actually try to look at this from a rational place and address it that way. Tackle the problem itself. And that lies within the mind of the people who commit these crimes. Again, when they are all identical, that should tell you something.
But I do believe in background checks and strict gun laws.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
When your constitution was written the most deadly weapon was a fucking musket. Nobody should have the right to bear a semi automatic or automatic killing tool. The weapon this guy used was designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings. Honestly who has the "RIGHT" to bear such a weapon? For what purpose? Killing sprees?
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
"In terms of the U.S., there's much easier availability of killing instruments -- rifles, machine guns, explosives -- than in nearly every other developed country," Dr. Ding said.
"In the United States, we had 9,000 people killed with guns last year, in similar countries like Germany 170 (killed with guns), in Canada 150. There's a reason for that," Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-New York, told CNN's Piers Morgan.
"The proof in the pudding is that in every other industrialized nation except the United States, they have reasonable gun control laws, and they have hundreds of people killed each year -- not 9,000 or 10,000 a year -- killed by guns."
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
When our constituion was written, none of our rights were to include nearly half of the population today. The majority of owners don't kill people or go on mass shooting sprees. If we outlawed booze it would stop drunk driving... Or would it? People find ways around it. Going after the instrument is not the solution, it's the people behind it. But if they limited access to it, created stiffer regulations to them, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it will do nothing to stop gun violence. Absolutely nothing.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
When our constituion was written, none of our rights were to include nearly half of the population today. The majority of owners don't kill people or go on mass shooting sprees. If we outlawed booze it would stop drunk driving... Or would it? People find ways around it. Going after the instrument is not the solution, it's the people behind it. But if they limited access to it, created stiffer regulations to them, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it will do nothing to stop gun violence. Absolutely nothing.
About DUI, Norway haven't outlawed booze, but we have perhaps the most strict alcohol policy in the world, and even if I personally find it silly, I can't argue with the stats - IT WORKS.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
"In terms of the U.S., there's much easier availability of killing instruments -- rifles, machine guns, explosives -- than in nearly every other developed country," Dr. Ding said.
"In the United States, we had 9,000 people killed with guns last year, in similar countries like Germany 170 (killed with guns), in Canada 150. There's a reason for that," Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-New York, told CNN's Piers Morgan.
"The proof in the pudding is that in every other industrialized nation except the United States, they have reasonable gun control laws, and they have hundreds of people killed each year -- not 9,000 or 10,000 a year -- killed by guns."
More hyperbole. Does nothing to find a solution to the reality of the problem.
If we ban guns, and then these people started using fertalizer and homemade explosives to start killing hundreds instead dozens, we'd still have people wanting to ban the home made ingredients in the explosives than addressing the real problem of the people behind it.
