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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
buzzsaw wrote:Cramer wrote:The status quo will do nothing quick.
Anybody who thinks this isn't a gun control issue should have their head examined.
Anybody that thinks gun control solves this needs to have their head examined.
So if we enacted gun laws that stopped the sale of guns that spray out 50 bullets at a time that would not make a difference?
If we enacted laws that required stricter mental health evaluation that wouldn't make a difference?
Surely even you could understand these simple ideas.
Understand? Yes. See any impact? No. Less kids accidents maybe. That's it. The bad/crazy guy will always get the gun. Well, maybe in 100 years or so it will become more difficult, but it will take that long at the very least to impact the amount of guns out on the street just illegally (not even counting the legal ones).
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
buzzsaw wrote:The gun didn't kill anybody without a person pulling the trigger. Undeniable fact that renders the rest of your gun control bullshit useless.
Some logic...
The mentally ill person could cause no harm if they didn't have a trigger to pull in the first place, much less one attached to an assault weapon.
What is more logical to address right now? Mental illness or their ridiculously easy access to firearms?
Perhaps you can point out the last time somebody with a knife walked into a movie theater and killed two dozen people in one swoop? Please...I'm all ears.
They are going to get a gun no matter what. It's not like the illegal ones are hard to find. Clearly you have no clue as to the situation in the US. You guys want these things that work great in theory, but do not work at all in practice.
Want proof? Let me know how the war on drugs is going.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
buzzsaw wrote:If guns weren't here (everywhere) already, I would agree with you. They are here and too many of them to go away any time soon.
What a cowards argument. By all means lets defend the insanity of the status quo while little kids have their brains splattered all over the walls of their school. Is that what you like???
It's a fact, it's not an argument at all. I don't own a gun dude. I don't want to own a gun. I couldn't shoot someone even if I had to. That doesn't blind me to the fact that making a law changes nothing.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Restricting guns only takes them out of the hands of regular citizens. If I really want one it's really just a matter of having a few hundred bucks or an active imagination. Of course a society is not going to be able to stop crazies from popping up. People die, it's the nature of things. There's been more people killed in cars just since this story broke. It's the prize you pay for the larger good.
At least someone gets it.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
buzzsaw wrote:Cramer wrote:The status quo will do nothing quick.
Anybody who thinks this isn't a gun control issue should have their head examined.
Anybody that thinks gun control solves this needs to have their head examined.
It worked in every other in the western civilization man. Like our Australian mate her says, it's so bloody obvious to everyone else but Americans.
After 22/7 the first thing we looked at was stricter gun control to avoid something like that happening again, our laws had too many loop holes.
No one talking of banning guns, my neighbour got rifles and goes elk hunting each autumn. It's about controlling who gets what.
The stats are obvious for ALL to see. This stuff, with rare exceptions, happens in America.
People blame mentally ill people and so on, so you're basically saying Americans are either more dumb or more sick than the rest of us.
LOL. Not even worth a response. The culture is what it is. Passing a simple law won't change that. Come up with a bett plan than plassing a law that has no chance of changing anything.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
DCK wrote:misterID wrote:But the majority of these shooters aren't getting their guns through legal means, where stricter gun laws wouldn't have done anything to prevent it.
Again, not saying I'm against stricter gun laws, I think it's a god idea. Just throwing that out there.
It's not about being dumb, or whatever. It's about understanding the stuation. If the majority of people comitting these crimes ARE in fact mentally ill, it should give you a pretty good clue as to where to focus.
So how do they get them easier in the US than say Australia? Yet again because too many people have guns and should not have them. At one point easy access has to stop, and it has to stop with the buyer. Less people with guns, less people will gain illegal access. The statistics are all there to see, look at Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Italy....whatever. But Buzz has a point with the country being infested with guns, u can't get rid of them now which leads me to believe that it's too late. A negative view in itself, but culture wise - this will take time.
That ship has sailed. And I still don't think people are getting the point.
The one thing that bothers me is all the talk about the instrument and not the perpetrator. It's a fact that in communities with high rates of gun related homicide have identical characteristics: Poverty. Failing education systems. High drug and alcohol abuse. And unstable homes. If you address these things, like investing in the communities education system, improving the economy in said city, tackling the social problems, ie: curbing teen pregnancy and invest in prevention of drugs and alcohol abuse, that dramatically brings down the rate of crimes and murder. No gun law, no matter how strict, can accomplish that. That says everything right there.
Again, we have to seriously look at mental illness, and in almost all of these cases, from Columbine to the theater massacre, there were warning signs and people had actually warned the authorities, or at the very least, told someone to try to prevent the person from going off, but nothing was done. If that means creating a database of people who've been institutionalized, including a way for doctors to put patients in a database who are potential threats (meaning, including this in a gun background check) and recognizing early on, even school children, signs of mental instability and addressing it there, then that should seriously be looked into, imo.
Strict gun laws won't do anything. I'm hearing a lot from people who are so staunch and passionate on this issue that they aren't even making a clear point on how to prevent it, just casting judgement on American culture (sadly) and venting. I want something that works. It's in our constitution the right to own a gun and there are too many guns out there to do anything about it. But instead of hyperbole, let's actually try to look at this from a rational place and address it that way. Tackle the problem itself. And that lies within the mind of the people who commit these crimes. Again, when they are all identical, that should tell you something.
But I do believe in background checks and strict gun laws.
Bingo. And I'm not against stricter gun laws, but lets not pretend that it fixes anything.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Fact is no matter how you spin it, you and your loved ones are much more likely to be gunned down than am I.
I'm not sure about that. We have a much larger population too. Those numbers don't address that at all. They also don't adress that most of the deaths are gang vs gang. It's pretty rare (though it does happen) that innocent people are shot and killed outside of these mass killings. When you look at the real numbers, it's not really as far off as you seem to think it is.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
DCK wrote:Fact is no matter how you spin it, you and your loved ones are much more likely to be gunned down than am I.
I'm not spinning anything. What have I said that was untrue? Create all the strict gun laws you want, ban them... Your stats on violent crime would stay the same. Only the accidential shootings would go down.
Thank you!!!!
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Man, Bono makes sense
Bono makes sense if the guns weren't already all over the place and the guns being used in these things were obtained legally. Unfortunately for him, neither is the case.
We've been in a war on drugs since at least the 80s. That's going as well as prohibition did.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I think we should give everyone on the planet several guns to own, and that way, everyone can shoot each other whenever they disagree about something. And then no-one would be left here arguing pointlessly for 11 pages when two sides clearly aren't going to see eye to eye about this...
On a serious note, how absolutely fucked up is it that 20 kids were killed. It's bad for all the people that were killed, but 20 kids between 5-10 years old, that is absolutely terrible....!!! 
