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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I see those volunteer firefighters were shot at and 2 killed. I suppose the NRA will come out with their solution being that they now need to arm the firefighters and volunteers.
Obviously. Because firefighters and teachers are 'normal people' which means no one of them will ever 'snap' and shoot anyone.
This is a list of school shootings in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc … ted_States
And for the rest of the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
Speaks volumes doesn't it?
And, the black day of Europe, the Dunblane massacre in 1996
"Dumb" British politicians decided to do something about it:
In response to this public debate, the then-current Conservative government introduced a ban on all cartridge ammunition handguns with the exception of .22 calibre single-shot weapons in England, Scotland and Wales. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour government of Tony Blair introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, banning the remaining .22 cartridge handguns in England, Scotland and Wales, and leaving only muzzle-loading and historic handguns legal, as well as certain sporting handguns (e.g. "Long-Arms") that fall outside the Home Office Definition of a "Handgun" due to their dimensions. The ban does not affect Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.
No school shootings have happened since then in the UK. Since Columbine in 98, the list goes on and on.
Accidents not counted, 561 children have been killed by guns between 2006 and 2010.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Lets say u have armed teachers... couple psychos catch teacher writing on marker board, jump him a. Take his gun.... lock the Indestructable door kill entire class.... I think armed teachers would be a bad idea and a terrible learning enviroment. Plus owning a gun and actually using said gun, are two completely different animals.
What would be different if they brought their own gun to school. Everything you described would still happen. At least with an armed (and trained) teacher, there is a chance for a better outcome.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
That's the biggest problem right there. Americans value their civil liberty to own a gun more than they value the civil liberty to live in a safe environment. That's where there's a disconnect between Americans and the rest of the world who view the American attitude towards guns as completely fucked up. Sorry I don't know how to say it any nicer.
If people didn't own guns, we wouldn't be safer, we'd be less safe because only the bad guys would have guns. It's unbelieveable how simple this is, yet so many of you fail to grasp it. If the bad guys didn't already have millions of guns, I'd agree with you, but that ship has sailed.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I see those volunteer firefighters were shot at and 2 killed. I suppose the NRA will come out with their solution being that they now need to arm the firefighters and volunteers.
There's no way to stop the nutcases. Another simple concept people are failing to grasp.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Aussie wrote:I see those volunteer firefighters were shot at and 2 killed. I suppose the NRA will come out with their solution being that they now need to arm the firefighters and volunteers.
Obviously. Because firefighters and teachers are 'normal people' which means no one of them will ever 'snap' and shoot anyone.
This is a list of school shootings in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc … ted_States
And for the rest of the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
Speaks volumes doesn't it?
And, the black day of Europe, the Dunblane massacre in 1996
"Dumb" British politicians decided to do something about it:In response to this public debate, the then-current Conservative government introduced a ban on all cartridge ammunition handguns with the exception of .22 calibre single-shot weapons in England, Scotland and Wales. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour government of Tony Blair introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, banning the remaining .22 cartridge handguns in England, Scotland and Wales, and leaving only muzzle-loading and historic handguns legal, as well as certain sporting handguns (e.g. "Long-Arms") that fall outside the Home Office Definition of a "Handgun" due to their dimensions. The ban does not affect Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.
No school shootings have happened since then in the UK. Since Columbine in 98, the list goes on and on.
Accidents not counted, 561 children have been killed by guns between 2006 and 2010.
The weapon of choice outside the US isn't the gun, but there are still incidents at schools. And when they do happen, they are massive (see the Finland shooting or wherever that was) because nobody can do a damn thing TO STOP THE CRAZY PERSON that is killing people.
It's the person, not the gun. I'm not sure how many times this has to be repeated before you guys get it.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Bono wrote:That's the biggest problem right there. Americans value their civil liberty to own a gun more than they value the civil liberty to live in a safe environment. That's where there's a disconnect between Americans and the rest of the world who view the American attitude towards guns as completely fucked up. Sorry I don't know how to say it any nicer.
If people didn't own guns, we wouldn't be safer, we'd be less safe because only the bad guys would have guns. It's unbelieveable how simple this is, yet so many of you fail to grasp it. If the bad guys didn't already have millions of guns, I'd agree with you, but that ship has sailed.
Listen to yourself? Talking about how simple it is yet it's the rest of the world who doesn't get it. The rest of the world grasps the concept that everyone owning a gun does not make you safer. Quite the opposite and the results in other countries prove this. All it does is add more guns into circulation allowing for easier access for the "bad guys" to get them. You're attitude towards this is absolutely based on fear despite Axlin's claims that Americans fear absolutely nothing. You sound like a six year old kid. "If we ban guns only the bad guys will have them, what will we do then daddy?" Statistics prove you're wrong. Only in America is the mentality more guns = more safety and you are the least safe civilized nation when it comes to this shit. When is the last time you heard a story where someone with a gun in the United States went John McClane on the bad guys and saved the day? It doesn't happen. It's such a fantasy that you and other Americans share that more guns = being safer. like I said to Axlin your attitude needs to change because nothing changes if nothing changes. Your attitude as it stands is to arm every individual to the point where you guys are primed to blow yourself off the face of the earth. And it's gonna happen because that's your culture until you actually decide to do something about it. You guys won't though because your fear of each other cause you to act irrationally. That and because Americans are "smarter" than everyone else. 
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
here it is for you in the simplest of simplest terms so you can grasp the concept. It's tough but try:
Put ten people stranded on an island with no guns. Leave them there for as long as you want. Say 50 years. What are the odds of there being a gun related death?
Put ten people stranded on an island and one person with an assault riffle or a handgun. Leave them there for as long as you want. Say 50 years. What are the odds of there being a gun related death?
Put ten people stranded on an island each with an assault riffle or a handgun. Leave them there for as long as you want. Say 50 years. What are the odds of there being a gun related death?
Explain to me how each scenario gets safer and safer. It's obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that each scenario in fact gets less and less safe. But no you're right it's the rest of us who don't "get it". So forget about regulation and banning certain types of models. Forget about creating a buy back policy, forget about screening processes, forget about needing a license, forget about a waiting period. Forget it all.
keep the deafitist attitude that there's nothing that can be done and in the meantime watch your country shoot itself to death.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
There are millions of guns already here bono. That fact trumps whatever situation you can come up with from somewhere else. No law is going to change that. Millions of guns that the bad guys aren't giving up and many of the legal gun owners aren't giving up.
Round and round we go. Until you understand that, you just make yourself look stupid. Normally I wouldn't be that blunt, but if you're going to call me a six year old for understanding how things are in my country, I'm going to call you stupid for continuing to not understand how things are.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I agree with you Buzz in that from what I can tell of the situation in the US the horse has already bolted. There are so many guns out there that shutting the gate on them won't do a damn thing in the short term. However, if you do it now, have a gun buy back (like they did in Oz) coupled with a heap of other things including change the attitude towards owning guns, perhaps more $$'s for mental health, make the Gen Y fuckers more responsible and less pandered too by the PC brigade etc etc, maybe after one or two generations you will start to see an impact.
Personally I don't think gun restrictions will ever stop the crazy type that wants to take out as many people as possible. Maybe restrictions will stop 10-20% just guessing, but most of these fuckers will still get the guns by illegal means if they want and are motivated enough. We still see shootings here in Oz coz the US doesn't have a monopoly on crazy fucked up people. Although we don't see the same number relative to our population size that the US has.
However, what I do think the gun restrictions here has done is stop a lot more of the one on one gun deaths. You know the sort where there is a domestic dispute and someone grabs there gun and kills the other person. Or an altercation on the street coz someone looked at somebody funny so they shot them. Or a robbery that went wrong and someone got shot. We don't see nearly as many of these I believe because there just isn't the availability of guns. These incidents don't occur in the main with guns anywhere near as frequently as they would if guns were more freely available. I think this is where guns controls will have the biggest impact, not so much on mass shootings.
But again because the USA is already flooded with guns and a gun mentality if changes are made there now bringing in restrictions, it will only be done with the long long term future in mind, because in the short term it will make fuck all difference that I can see. But if you want to make a change for future generations then I certainly don't see arming more people as the answer.
If you arm the school teachers, then the massacres will move on to movie theatres, or local sports grounds or other soft target work places. They won't stop and you then end up with yet more guns out there, more people armed and then more of those other type of guns deaths - the one on one types I spoke of.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Aussie - One of this yrs massacres did take place in a cinema, @ the dark knight rises.
This idea of 'we'd be less save cause only the bad guys would have guns' is reductive bordering on the asinine.
If there was a willingness to confront the lunacy then maybe there could be a chance for change, which would be incremental but welcome. But @ the end of the day money talks, & the gun business is big business & won't go quietly away just because hundreds die. That's not something I agree w/& things can change eventually (the smoking industry, perhaps - or the health service) but atm its hard to see a drastic change in laws coming. The culture, the lunacy that pervades, is too crazed & emotional for good progress to happen.
