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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
See, that's just it Neemo. You don't get to tell us that something this country was founded on is outdated. You're talking to someone that doesn't own a gun here, not some crazy NRA apologist. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong. It means you don't understand it. What you said is completely insulting to me as a US citizen. I understand you didn't mean it to come out that way, but that's exactly how it comes out. You don't know what's best for us. You have no idea what is best for us; you have no understanding of our culture. All you guys go by is what you see on tv or what you hear on the news which is nothing like what it is to live in 99% of the country.
You worry about your country and let us worry about ours. If everyone thinks we're so idiotic, maybe it's about time we stopped helping anybody else and only worried about us.
Well I'm not saying I disagree with it but isn't the US foreign policy based on going into other cultures/countries and telling them what's good for them and how society should be. Do you really understand them? Do you really have any idea whats best for them? Maybe some of these places are happy with something different from what the US thinks is ideal? Are you not insulting them?
Also, the US don't seem to be too happy with other countries arming themselves to protect against their bad guys? Isn't the best protection against a dick with a gun another gun? Obviously not in all circumstances.
Again not saying I disagree with US foreign policy but just playing devils advocate, particularly when people from outside of the US are being accused of not understanding their culture and therefore couldn't know what's best for them. Ummmmm what are you guys doing?
Maybe sometimes people from outside can see things a little clearer as they are not so close to it??? They can actually see what's possible as they are not anchored with the traditional way of thinking and can see an alternative.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Well I'm not saying I disagree with it but isn't the US foreign policy based on going into other cultures/countries and telling them what's good for them and how society should be. Do you really understand them? Do you really have any idea whats best for them? Maybe some of these places are happy with something different from what the US thinks is ideal? Are you not insulting them?
I think if you polled us, you'd find most of us don't really care what happens in other places. I think US foreign policy is based in what the gov't thinks is best for them; not for us and not for the other country. There's a lot that the gov't does that I don't agree with, but I have to live with it until we figure out a better way of doing things.
Also, the US don't seem to be too happy with other countries arming themselves to protect against their bad guys? Isn't the best protection against a dick with a gun another gun? Obviously not in all circumstances.
Again, I think the gov't is more interested in what is good for them, not necessarily us. Sometimes those things are the same, sometimes they are not. If you're looking for someone to defend our gov't, you're looking at the wrong person.
Again not saying I disagree with US foreign policy but just playing devils advocate, particularly when people from outside of the US are being accused of not understanding their culture and therefore couldn't know what's best for them. Ummmmm what are you guys doing?
Maybe sometimes people from outside can see things a little clearer as they are not so close to it??? They can actually see what's possible as they are not anchored with the traditional way of thinking and can see an alternative.
In some cases, yes. Being an outsider can help you see things differently. When I hire people, I sometimes encourage managers to hire someone outside the company for this very reason. Having said that, there is also insight that you miss being on the outside, which is what we've been trying to help you guys understand. One is that there are guns literally everywhere, another is that we've been fighting a war on drugs and getting nowhere in making any progress there for at least the last 30 years, and yet another is how difficult it is to change the constitution.
If you have ideas that take all of this into consideration and want to share them, by all means feel free to do so. I'd love to hear them. Don't say ban guns because that isn't possible. Give us something else. Anything else.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
there is just no point in disucussing something if u guys arent interested in opening ur eyes to the fact that at least imo ur right to bear arms is outdated and dangerous to your general public, mass murders in schools and theatres is all the proof I need that shit isn't working, but aparently I know nothing so I am bowing out, still monitoring tho so let's keep it civil or I will shut it down
See, this is the problem right here, neemo. It has nothing to do with the right to bear arms. You're not getting rid of that, and that'sjust a fact, but you guys just don't seem to get that. We're not making it up because we're gun advocates. If there were no guns in the US, I'd say Buzz and me would be fine with it. But there are, and always will be. You're saying we need to open our eyes... I think our eyes are wide open, we know our problems, we also know the realities. I'm not saying you don't understand as an insult, you guys seriously don't know our judicial and political system that makes banning guns impossible. It is. End of story. This isn't a question of will, culture, or morals, engrained thinking or anything else.
Again, we haven't said an assault weapons ban would be impossible to pass, it just won't work, because we tried it before. There are better ways. But we will always have guns.
Also, gun violence is GOING DOWN. We have given a bunch of ways to take it down even further along with sensible gun control. We also have a gun buy back program in the US to get guns off the streets. Had it for years. And like Buzz said, you're more likely to be killed by a lightning strike than be a victim of a violent crime in America.
Everyone in the U.S. sees what we've done in the middle east as a huge mistake. But we're not afraid of giving other people guns to protect themselves from bad guys, but that never seems to work out so well... But telling some crack pot in Iran who wants to eradicate an entire race of people (Israel) they can't have a nuke is another thing.
And neemo, I have a niece I've raised as a daughter.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Well the biggest first steps would be adequate funding, manpower and a will to enforce getting unregistered weapons and semi/auto weapons off the streets
How are you going to do that? We can't even get Washington to agree on something to keep our tanking economy from tanking any more and you think they are going to agree to fund something like this? We are spending like mad on the war on drugs and accomplishing nothing. I mean, you would literally have to go door to door and turn every house upside down to even make a dent, and there's this other thing in the constitution about illegal search and siezure...
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
If there is a will in congress to get something accomplished it could be done...obviously if nobody wants anything done then nothing will be done, that's not my fault
Neemo, even if they could somehow agree to do it, how are you going to fund it? If you can somehow afford to pay for it, how do you get around the fact you cannot legally go door to door to search for the guns?
Drugs have been illegal in the US forever (essentially). There's been a highly expensive war on drugs since at least the 80s and we're nowhere near solving the drug problem. What makes you think the war on guns is going to be a) affordable; or b) successful?
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Our war on drugs is slowly crumbling, so there's no way you'd start a gun ban now. Like I've said before, can you imagine the crime if they suddenly retroactively banned all guns? Or even most guns? The value of a gun would skyrocket and we'd have even more cime trying to get those guns. It would be the new arms race. And it would be ugly. And it would effect everyone... Imagine if those Mexican drug lords started making arms dealing a big part of their stable?
There's no magic wand here.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Neemo wrote:They managed to find trillions for war efforts....I'm sure they could figure it out if they wanted to
Maybe they could trade heroin for guns
I'd rather them take those trillions and fix our healthcare system
Agreed!
