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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Because if it was you'd see a revolution in demolition work at the moment. Lighting a fire on the third floor or whatever surely seems a cost effective way to bring a high rise building down.
Support columns don't just snap, and especially not all at the same time initiating a symmetric collapse. If they did you'd see a hell of a lot of buildings collapsing around the world.
Even if it was possible you'd have to agree it would be very unlikely, and when it happens 3 times in a day it's time to get suspicious.
See, that's just it...I don't get suspicious. One reason is the overwhelming amount of doctored "evidence" from conspiracy people. Another reason is that I haven't seen a slew of actual experts (read: not a conspiracy nutjob) say anything about how impossible that is or even how unlikely it is. If you want people to believe something, don't add on to it. Focus on the part you can "prove" or at least provide credible questions about. People will buy into that, but when you try to make it so big that it's no longer even feasible, you lose people. I mean really, the jets were fake and weren't really crashed into the buildings? Come on man.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
misterID wrote:The bulding didn't fall perfectly, actually.
And the support columns didn't snap, they gave way and buckled from a mixture of heat, stress and weight.
About as perfect as you can make a high rise fall.
It sounds very nice when you put it like that, until you realize these buildings are designed to withstand all of that. I could pour gasoline on a steel building for weeks and it wouldn't fall. A slight structural dent to the side wouldn't change a whole lot in that equation. Maybe, with major structural damage, you could initiate some sort of collapse, but no way in hell would it come down clean and neat like that. That kinda stuff takes months of preparations.
So lets ignore that fact that you are not an expert and have no idea what you're talking about.
"That kinda stuff takes months of preparations"
If you mean planting the explosives to blow up the building demolition style, you may be right. Lets assume you are. How did people for months set up explosives without anybody that works in the building noticing? Did the employees know what was going on and voluntarily give up their lives as part of the conspiracy? Did all of the people required to set up the explosives all keep quiet to absolutely every single person on the planet?
See? There are holes all over the place in the conspiracy. That's not even trying to analyze anything from an expert point of view...this is just looking at the human side of things.
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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
It's a one in a million shot that building falls.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
polluxlm wrote:Because if it was you'd see a revolution in demolition work at the moment. Lighting a fire on the third floor or whatever surely seems a cost effective way to bring a high rise building down.
Support columns don't just snap, and especially not all at the same time initiating a symmetric collapse. If they did you'd see a hell of a lot of buildings collapsing around the world.
Even if it was possible you'd have to agree it would be very unlikely, and when it happens 3 times in a day it's time to get suspicious.
See, that's just it...I don't get suspicious. One reason is the overwhelming amount of doctored "evidence" from conspiracy people. Another reason is that I haven't seen a slew of actual experts (read: not a conspiracy nutjob) say anything about how impossible that is or even how unlikely it is. If you want people to believe something, don't add on to it. Focus on the part you can "prove" or at least provide credible questions about. People will buy into that, but when you try to make it so big that it's no longer even feasible, you lose people. I mean really, the jets were fake and weren't really crashed into the buildings? Come on man.
Most people are "lost" from the get go. I have no interest or ambition to change that. I'm merely reiterating some of the points that made me go down the rabbit hole so to speak. If you're ready you're ready. All I can do is try and open people up to the possibility that some "truths" are not truths at all.
But alright, if you want to focus on the part I can prove fine. Careful what you wish for and all that, cause what you think of as "too big" is in my opinion the only real evidence we have.
This is what happens when a plane hits a solid wall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
Granted a Jet fighter and a Boeing is not the exact same thing, but even if you'd expect it to penetrate a building and not just disintegrate on impact you'd surely expect it to look less smooth than this:
I took physics in college but I'm definitely no expert. Though I would expect a fuel filled wing to explode on impact, not after. Supposing a hollow aluminum construction like that would even be capable of penetrating a spider web of steel girders in the first place, which I doubt.
Here are 6 "different" shots from supposed amateurs:
Were they all lunching in the same restaurant or something?
This touchup obviously can't be denied. Though it has been made on a later date so it doesn't prove anything per say, but nevertheless an interesting example of the medias attitude concerning "documentary" footage. Some doctoring is apparently not a problem.
Judging by the "different" feeds from the various networks that day it's peculiar that they all seem to have parked their helicopters in the same spot. Even more peculiar is that they still are able to capture different pictures.
Even a layman can see that this next shot isn't real:
Again, different photographers appear to all stand in the exact same place (and get some incredibly crisp pictures):
More:
This is a really impressive zoom (though it appears they forgot to add a plane for the entire duration):
Different plane paths:
If that's not enough to get suspicious and start researching things on your own there is nothing I can do for you. And before you say these images are doctored by CT nuts, go look on youtube, look at any official source. These were televised live and there are plenty of people who videotaped it.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
polluxlm wrote:misterID wrote:The bulding didn't fall perfectly, actually.
And the support columns didn't snap, they gave way and buckled from a mixture of heat, stress and weight.
About as perfect as you can make a high rise fall.
It sounds very nice when you put it like that, until you realize these buildings are designed to withstand all of that. I could pour gasoline on a steel building for weeks and it wouldn't fall. A slight structural dent to the side wouldn't change a whole lot in that equation. Maybe, with major structural damage, you could initiate some sort of collapse, but no way in hell would it come down clean and neat like that. That kinda stuff takes months of preparations.
So lets ignore that fact that you are not an expert and have no idea what you're talking about.
"That kinda stuff takes months of preparations"
If you mean planting the explosives to blow up the building demolition style, you may be right. Lets assume you are. How did people for months set up explosives without anybody that works in the building noticing? Did the employees know what was going on and voluntarily give up their lives as part of the conspiracy? Did all of the people required to set up the explosives all keep quiet to absolutely every single person on the planet?
See? There are holes all over the place in the conspiracy. That's not even trying to analyze anything from an expert point of view...this is just looking at the human side of things.
If you're trying to to find holes in my theory you're on a wild goose chase, cause I don't have one other than that what the gov is telling us is not true. Go ask FBI why Bin Laden was wanted for USS Cole but not 911. Go ask Tony Blair why he thinks the "evidence" wouldn't hold up in a court of law. Go ask the commission why you can to this day call up most of the hijackers named in their report and ask them why they're not dead. Ask them why who financed the operation is considered "unimportant" and why they haven't even bothered to check the bank slips.
It's because there is no evidence. The story is not real. That's all there is to it. Obviously trying to uncover what really actually happened is a little out of the hands of a regular norwegian with a computer.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Poll at that speed and velocity of a jet liner, the camera doesn't even have the speed to pick up the explosion until after the fact, thus the initial delay. It did explode on impace, but the sumbitch was haulin' ass. The tip of the jet isn't going to instantly explode for all eyes and camera to see. Speed doesn't work that way.
If we'd of known everybody would analyze every second of it, we would've had Michael Mann and Dion Beebe there filming it with full digital HD cameras, and you probably would've picked up the instant explosion.
Plus at that speed, the plane could pushed itself further into the building before detonating.
Bottom line -- truthers' facts are just inconclusive.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
If you're trying to to find holes in my theory you're on a wild goose chase, cause I don't have one other than that what the gov is telling us is not true. Go ask FBI why Bin Laden was wanted for USS Cole but not 911. Go ask Tony Blair why he thinks the "evidence" wouldn't hold up in a court of law. Go ask the commission why you can to this day call up most of the hijackers named in their report and ask them why they're not dead. Ask them why who financed the operation is considered "unimportant" and why they haven't even bothered to check the bank slips.
It's because there is no evidence. The story is not real. That's all there is to it. Obviously trying to uncover what really actually happened is a little out of the hands of a regular norwegian with a computer.
See, now you're talking about different things. Ask Al Capone what he ultimately got thrown in jail for...it wasn't the murders he ordered, it was for tax evasion. You prove what you can prove and don't worry about what you can't prove. Why do you think OJ is in jail as long as he is?
If you can't prove something, you focus on what you can prove. Who cares why you nail someone as long as you nail them? I don't. If you do enough things wrong, sooner or later they are going to be able to prove one of them.
I'm certain I never said I believe everything the gov't says. I know they don't tell us everything. I don't have illusions of how things work in this country. I don't allow that to transition into thinking that they can come up with such a sound conspiracy as blowing up the twin towers with planes that didn't exist and that the buildings were part of an elaborate demolition that would have taken literally thousands of people to execute and subsequently NONE of those people ever uttering a word about it to anyone. I think you can question things without taking it to the level of absurdity because once you go to that level, nobody is going to believe anything you say.
I love the JFK conspiracy because it's possible. I love gnr conspiracies because they are possible. There's no way that the gov't pulled off something as elaborate as 9/11 almost flawlessly while leaving simple video evidence that some computer nerd can easily spot on youtube. Think about that...
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Poll at that speed and velocity of a jet liner, the camera doesn't even have the speed to pick up the explosion until after the fact, thus the initial delay. It did explode on impace, but the sumbitch was haulin' ass. The tip of the jet isn't going to instantly explode for all eyes and camera to see. Speed doesn't work that way.
If we'd of known everybody would analyze every second of it, we would've had Michael Mann and Dion Beebe there filming it with full digital HD cameras, and you probably would've picked up the instant explosion.
Plus at that speed, the plane could pushed itself further into the building before detonating.
Bottom line -- truthers' facts are just inconclusive.
The explosion originates from inside the building. You can clearly see the plane disappear into it. That's also why you see flames erupting from all sides, like Die Hard. Nothing to do with the camera.
The jet itself might be able to make a hole given a large enough speed, though that's an incredibly complicated equation. But hollow wings filled with fuel? Sorry, not a chance. The first thing they'll do at the very first sign of stress is ignite and explode. I mean come on, we've all seen our share of crashes. It goes up pretty fast. We're talking a half a million ton structure here. It's not bulging.
In the videos we're shown there isn't even a time delay. The plane just disappears into the building like it was nothing. I choose not to believe that.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
See, now you're talking about different things. Ask Al Capone what he ultimately got thrown in jail for...it wasn't the murders he ordered, it was for tax evasion. You prove what you can prove and don't worry about what you can't prove. Why do you think OJ is in jail as long as he is?
If you can't prove something, you focus on what you can prove. Who cares why you nail someone as long as you nail them? I don't. If you do enough things wrong, sooner or later they are going to be able to prove one of them.
I'm certain I never said I believe everything the gov't says. I know they don't tell us everything. I don't have illusions of how things work in this country. I don't allow that to transition into thinking that they can come up with such a sound conspiracy as blowing up the twin towers with planes that didn't exist and that the buildings were part of an elaborate demolition that would have taken literally thousands of people to execute and subsequently NONE of those people ever uttering a word about it to anyone. I think you can question things without taking it to the level of absurdity because once you go to that level, nobody is going to believe anything you say.
I love the JFK conspiracy because it's possible. I love gnr conspiracies because they are possible. There's no way that the gov't pulled off something as elaborate as 9/11 almost flawlessly while leaving simple video evidence that some computer nerd can easily spot on youtube. Think about that...
The JFK thing would have to have involved a lot of people too. More importantly, it would have to involve people in high positions of government. If there are elements in your government in the 60s that have no qualms about offing a head of state in the most powerful country in the world, and being sure enough of getting away with it to actually dare do it. Well that shatters most preconceptions most have about what's going on in the corridors of power. It also goes a long way to explain what forces were actually behind the Iraq war, which I guess you too agree was based on a bunch of lies.
Ultimately though the entire conspiracy is mainly built on the fact that Oswald is unlikely to have done it due to the unbelievability of the government's claims. 50 years past we are not much closer to finding out what really happened. And this is "the conspiracy" with thousands if not millions of people looking for clues. After 50 years all you have is somewhat of a common belief that Oswald probably didn't do it, at least not alone. 9/11 will eventually become the same. Accepted as questionable, but forever clouded in mystery.
I don't do this because I think that one day, maybe, the "truth" will get out. Then Georgie will go to jail and we can all hold hands. Nah. If anything, JFK shows me that no matter how obvious something is it won't matter. We're all vested in this thing, and if you have food on the table and a sense of security, damn anyone who wants to change that.
The only thing waiting at the end of this rainbow is a sense of spiritualism. A lesson to never trust authority. The world, as it is and have always been, exist to teach us that. I hope.
