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- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
I like this guy, there seems no shit to him. I recommend listening to this while cooking dinner or else it's very slow moving.
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
polluxlm wrote:He's cool but still a fair bit biased towards his own world view. Comparing being sent to boarding school with being abused and bullied as a child really is ridiculous. And I'll give him an answer to what Axl stands for, pouring true emotion into his work making it a class of its own. As a music fan, what else is of interest to me?
If his job his maximizing the bands earnings he surely should be able to see NR and DC (and their videos) contribution to that. If he wants to talk about being elemental and creating great, genuine music someone should show him the recent poll from this forum, where hardcore GN'R fans picked Coma and Estranged as clear favorites on the Illusions.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
He talks shit of illusions cause he was fired by then maybe
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
He's cool but still a fair bit biased towards his own world view. Comparing being sent to boarding school with being abused and bullied as a child really is ridiculous.
I could be wrong but he made a reference to another guy talking about being sexually approached in Eton, that kind of weird shit is rife in boarding schools. I got the impression that he was saying that at seven he was sent to a world where that shit went on i.e. he was abused himself...I could well be putting a huge set of legs on this though and have nothing to back up such an opinion.
Ultimately you are absolutely correct though..being raped by a parent is up there with the most heinous and traumatic of events and he should not have dismissed it as he did.
My feeling is that this is coming from a place of frustratuion with Axl and how he may have used that event as a reason to explain his more unpalatable ways (Niven referred to Axl's obsession with control, his constant complaning and getting his own way and his drive to outdo his heroes).
Weirdly, I remember a documentary about Michael Jackson (another super talented, super famous childhood abuse victim) and Clive Davis was talking about Micahel's demands and constant complaining and obsession with outdoing all of his idols. Both Axl & Michael seemed to behave the same way once they were in the eye of the storm of their success.
If his job his maximizing the bands earnings he surely should be able to see NR and DC (and their videos) contribution to that
Well he decided to split UYI into two albums to maximise the return to the band so he knew where the money was BUT I agree that his taste in music wrt GNR was firmly on Izzy's Stonesy side which was a blindside & ultimately a shortcoming for him.
For me, those three interviewers missed a very important point, most of us are fans of GNR because of the crazy metamorphosis the band under went. It was never seen quite like this before. Some of it was amazing, some of it was “too much, too young” egomania but it was a hell of a show. I’m glad they went ape-shit on the UYI’s.
Personally, I would have loved them to stay together and come out in 1994 with a Contraband style album, heavier with Axl going bananas all over it. That would have stuck it to all the hipsters. Then I would have let Axl go off on his own to make his Elton John meets NIN album as a solo project.
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
polluxlm wrote:Yeah doubtless some shit went on at the boarding schools too, but evidently not to him. And it's Eton we're talking about. Not exactly a project school, and if you're there it's because your family is well enough off to afford it. And ultimately they do it because they want what's best for you. While all children in all families experience some trauma it just can't be compared to living in an abusive child hood. You mentioned MJ, same thing. I've meet some social services children in my time too and without avail they were all fucked up. Alan really showed his ignorance there and frankly the moment was extremely embarrassing coming from a 50 something, intelligent man. Of course he's going to be obsessed about control and power when feeling so powerless as a child. You don't really need to be a psychologist to see that.
I can totally understand the Axl bias though. It's not surprising that a manager fails to see the importance of Axl's erratic behavior in the creation of the music. He's a level headed guy with probably not too many strong polarizing emotions. Works great for that role, but he's no musician. If he can't see the brilliance of Coma and Estranged I really don't know what to tell him other than he must have a narrow perspective on music. He almost seems to treat it as an English factory or something. Just do your thing and go home, why should that be so hard? Well it's art Alan, it doesn't arrive on demand. If your singer is crazy with all kinds of peculiarities getting in the way of things, well that's just how it is. Either you pull through and end up being part of something special creatively (and the pay day to match) or you go work with some easy going guys and create something more standard (and the lesser pay day to match that).
Another funny example is him criticizing Axl for trying to measure himself against greats like Led Zeppelin, when a few minutes earlier he had blasted him for not being John Lennon/Bob Dylan enough..
Either way there's no reason to continue ripping on a guy who treated you a little hard in a professional relationship 25 years ago. Same goes for Axl by the way. Why can't these guys just let it go? I'm all for hearing cool and gritty stories, just leave the bias at the door. If anything it only makes yourself look bad.
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
I agree, after awhile it starts vindicating Axl after awhile that these guys "were serious haters with an agenda". At the end of the day, Alan is a manager. I don't buy this whole 'rock n roll spirit' bullshit. I think it comes down to "I got fired from the biggest, best, highest paying job, in rock n' roll at the highest moment in it's history".
Alan, unlike Steven, didn't have a rock pedigree to scratch and claw his way back into music and get some respect on his own. Alan is a manager. Fired from Guns N' Roses, manager of Great White... that's it... isn't exactly a great job opener. Most managers have some kinda heat and a gimmick. Think Doc McGhee. Col. Parker.
Alan's got neither, and the more he talks he comes across like Steven a couple years ago and earlier. Stuck in 1990 when he was something, no heat, no push, no talented guys to bring him back into the booze, brauds, and booty scene that is the music industry, and ultimately who's to blame?
Axl
I have had it rough in my life, and I could keep blaming the railroad job I got on a great job in 2006, but ultimately I just started to blame myself. I can either hang up on this and NEVER get over it or I can move on. I have two options at that point, say fuck off and blown my fucking head off my shoulders, done, or I can pick up the pieces and let revenge fuel my desire and motivation.
Either way -- time to shut up about it. jmho
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
I don't think anyone was "out" to get Axl.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
Can't wait to listen to this.
For what it's worth (considering I haven't heard it yet) I want to put it out there that there have been some serious problems with sexual and high-level physical abuse at boarding and "private" schools in the past.
This type of abuse can wind up very similar to the family-based abuse Axl suffered. Victims undergoing long-term psychological and physical torment either done by or condoned by the very people entrusted with protecting them, and in an environment which is also their 'home' and thus from which there is no immediate escape.
However, I'm not sure what bow he's drawing from that yet, but I will say I don't think the effects of either Axl's abuse or anyone who suffered boarding school abuse, should be minimised. It's damaging stuff.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Dropping the Needle Podcast with Alan Niven
At the end of the day, Alan is a manager. I don't buy this whole 'rock n roll spirit' bullshit. I think it comes down to "I got fired from the biggest, best, highest paying job, in rock n' roll at the highest moment in it's history".
In fairness Axlin, we'd all be pissed if we got what he got. He worked hard for the band and just as the moon was in sight he got fucked out.
What is telling is that Izzy went straight back to him as a solo artist and the VR guys wanted him to come bacik and manage the band originally so it seems that his sacking from GNR was indeed spearheaded by one man..Axl..Well two men...Goldstein who was creeping into Axl's head behind the scenes. That is backed up by Alan, Izzy and Slash. And of course we have that creepy, ingratiating letter from the man himself to Axl as further proof of the kind of character Doug was/is.
As Niven turned down managing Bon Jovi and Velvet Revolver, I tend to believe he is more of an old rock n roller / manager of the old school who likes the money but has to like the artist too.
Some quotes …
Izzy Stradlin about Niven’s role:
“I felt really bad about it, because I'm still friends with Alan. I felt I had to choose between him and the band. He was kinda like the sixth member of the group for a while. And he really helped put us where we are now. I still think he’s a great manager. But Axl and he had too much of a clash of personalities. Alan has his way of doing things which is more like a military strategy. Axl wants to do stuff his way, at his pace, in his time.”
Look where Axl’s “way” and “pace” has gotten us….
Slash in his 2007 biography by Antony Bozzer:?
“During this process (the mixing of ‘UYI’) the animosity between our manager, Alan Niven, and Axl came to a head. The rest of us had been trying to squash it for a while, but Axl's issues with Alan had been brewing for years - since the moment he found out that Alan also managed and produced and co-wrote Great White. There was also the fact that Alan was opinionated on a lot of things and Axl didn’t always agree with his point of view. So at times Axl felt like he was being forced to do things that he didn't necessarily want to do.“I knew it was going to happen but I didn’t think it would be the tipping point. Looking back, I feel that shift was the moment, the pause at the pinnacle of the band’s success... and the start of its downfall… All the same, I saw Doug coming. He made a place for himself in Axl’s life, and once Axl had made his feelings about Alan clear, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Doug was right there to pick up the reins. He had been strategically moving up the ladder from the beginning. He was like an ambush predator.”
How many times have we bemoaned the fact that nobody tells Axl what is the best thing to do?? To me, Alan looks like the last man that did.
