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Re: Donald Trump running for President
Saying it like it is, is one thing. Being a bigoted jerk is quite another.
I don't see calling for a pause until we understand what we're really doing as bigotry. I see it as sensible. I don't agree with branding them, but I think knowing what you're doing makes sense.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Trump is right on this but wrong in the Mexicans. Seal the border make those here legal. Need to stop radical Muslims from entering the US.
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Cramer wrote:Saying it like it is, is one thing. Being a bigoted jerk is quite another.
I don't see calling for a pause until we understand what we're really doing as bigotry. I see it as sensible. I don't agree with branding them, but I think knowing what you're doing makes sense.
If his references in regards to Mexicans weren't enough to take pause, then I'm not sure what would.
He's also completely lacking in anything concrete, other than saying everything he does will be "awesome" and "YUGE."
He got his big start with the birther non-sense, which is ridiculous in its own right.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Trump is a clown, but the radical Muslim stuff is out of control
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Trump is a clown, but the radical Muslim stuff is out of control
I'm certainly no fan of Islam (but that also goes for most religions.) But what is Trump really saying we do? Round of millions of Muslims in this country, then do what? They are second and third generation Americans now.
I do look at Europe, and am in awe of how many countries have allowed dangerous Muslim elements to fester in the name of multiculturalism however. But that's a far cry from how America has welcomed refugees past and present.
What's more troubling are second generation American Muslims who become radicalized via the internet by jihadist nutjobs abroad. I'm not sure how we stop that. But we've also seen white Americans scurry off to the Middle East to fight alongside the Taliban. Do we also round up white suburban kids born in SoCal? The Boston Bombers, and these latest assholes were living here, assimilated to our culture and seemed like anybody else...until they weren't.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Donald Trump running for President
I'm not even convinced it's much to do with islam. It's an excuse or an ideology for lunatics to get behind, they now have a banner under which they can claim their actions have a cause. I think it's become a cultural movement and as such attracts a certain type of person to it simply because others are doing it, not because that is the way of islam.
In the 80's in the UK there was a massive issue with football violence. Each team had a 'firm' and they would meet up with the firm of whoever their club was playing that Saturday, beat the shit out of each other and destroyed whichever high street they were on. Was this because these guys felt so passionate about their club that they needed to half kill anyone who supported another team? No, they just loved a good tear up and were able to do so under the banner of being a 'football hooligan' because it allowed them to be a psycho with a cause, football itself had very little to do with it. For me this is the same sort of thing, a banner under which the aggrieved and misguided can justify their actions.
The solution in my humble opinion lies largely with the other 99.9% of the muslim community. Like with the football, nobody thought the clubs or vast majority of supporters condoned the behaviour but it was still their clubs name being dragged through the mud and as such had to very publically work to eliminate the hooligan element at their clubs. So that's what they did, work with the police and rooted out the hooligans and cut them out of football all together.
I think the same solution applies to a degree here but the PC brigade are getting in the way. No, the islamic faith does not have to apologise for the acts of a few crazies but it doesn't mean they shouldn't anyway. Most people are intelligent enough to realise IS don't represent the vast vast majority of muslims. Unfortunately it's irrelevant because islams name is being dragged through the mud regardless. At the moment, to the wrong kind of mind IS offers something fashionable to march with. The world and the muslim faith particularly need to work together on this to show it has nothing to do with islam, they're just another set of hooligans and that the cause they supposedly fight for despises them as much as everyone else. Remove the banner under which they march.
Therefore in my view calling for a blanket ban on muslims entering the country is alienating the very people we should be working with.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Cramer, this isn't for American Muslims. He wants to put a pause on letting non American Muslims into the US. Has nothing to do with US Muslims.
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Trump is a clown, but the radical Muslim stuff is out of control
Yes, the radical muslim stuff is out of control, but so is the radical Christian stuff in the US, or the radical right wing stuff in the Netherlands, or the radical left wing stuff in France, ... The recurring theme here is 'radical', not a particular version of a particular god those radicals happen to believe in, nor even their political ideologies.
Limiting people's freedoms based on their religion, ethnicity, political convictions, ... is deplorable no matter what the perceived urgency might be. Once you go there, you've collectively lost as a nation. Worse, you haven't just lost, you've given up. They've won by making you give up on your own ideals.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Donald Trump running for President
Smoking Guns wrote:Trump is a clown, but the radical Muslim stuff is out of control
Yes, the radical muslim stuff is out of control, but so is the radical Christian stuff in the US, or the radical right wing stuff in the Netherlands, or the radical left wing stuff in France, ... The recurring theme here is 'radical', not a particular version of a particular god those radicals happen to believe in, nor even their political ideologies.
Limiting people's freedoms based on their religion, ethnicity, political convictions, ... is deplorable no matter what the perceived urgency might be. Once you go there, you've collectively lost as a nation. Worse, you haven't just lost, you've given up. They've won by making you give up on your own ideals.
I don't give a fuck who is offended. Keep more radical Muslims from entering the US. Please stop with the the radical Christian shit. What a reach. Nobody is limiting religion in the US. Trump is just saying out vetting process sucks and they keep getting in. He wants to stop letting them in, as does France, Germany, Sweden, and the U.K. Though they don't say it publicly. This is a major debacle. I don't know any Christian terrorists and the lone wolf abortion clinics does not count as that.
