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Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
I'm quite surprised there isnt a louder voice unhappy about how the film is a blatant recycling of the the original, c'mon to fuck its the same fuckin story!!?? Except its a more PC version of the originals, any flip side you can imagine of the originals has been shoehorned in, black instead of white, female instead of male, gay instead of straight, old instead of young, orange instead of blue...
To me the fan reaction is more disappointing than the movie. I didn't expect much from Disney. Why was SW so popular in the first place if fans are happy with perfectly generic elements?
Torrents for me from here on. I might never watch TFA again. No use in it.
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
I personally have felt ALL - OF - THEM - were the same recycling of the same fucking story again and again and again.
I like Star Wars. I really do.
But I don't LOVE Star Wars. The reason why is because there was only two movies imo, New Hope & Empire. That's it. Empire being the superior of the two. The "Aliens" to New Hope's "Alien", or T2 to T1. That's really it.
VI: Jedi just recycled IV: Hope
Then VII: Force recycled IV & VI -- again. (I actually made a comment to my father of being like, "really... another fucking Death Star? Really?")
For all of the shit the Prequels got, the actual plot of those movies was all original and ambitious. I'll give Lucas credit for that. The problem was, they designed the films so badly to sell toys (kind of like Return of the Jedi), that the dialogue was terrible and the acting targeted to children. Not even all audiences. Plus it had awful CGI, even for it's day. Considering it's budget, it was laughably bad.
Despite the piss poor dialogue and rushing of character development, I still have a soft place in my heart for III: Revenge of the Sith. As a straight-forward action/sci-fi film, it's pretty kick ass. Plus the nihilistic ending has kind of that Shakespearean-tragedy thing that Empire had.
Either way, Star Wars is definitely the Halloween of sci-fi franchises. It's kind of the same thing every sequel. Instead of the Boogeyman stalking babysitters, it's a Vadar killing rebels while building a death ray. Over... and over... and over.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
I don't know why anyone wants to give Lucas a pass on the prequels. He said he only had enough story for a single movie but he stretched it to 3 because people expected a trilogy and he wanted to make even more money on the prequel project. According to him 60% of the story is in Revenge of the Sith. He deserves ridicule for shitty writing and direction. He even makes good actors look wooden in those films.
And with the most important character he blew the casting/direction in a huge way, not to mention the writing itself is terrible. Anakin is described a very different way in the original Star Wars. What we get in the prequels is a whiny bitch. This is 100% on Lucas.
Force Awakens is too much of a rehash of A New Hope, but it is still miles better than the prequels. Adam Driver's Kylo Ren is probably a better version of what Lucas wanted with Anakin in the prequels. I enjoyed Rey and Finn a lot more than any of the prequel characters. Han Solo was also well done. The worst thing about it of course was the Death Star. That shit is so played out by now. Hopefully we won't see it in the sequels.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
George Lucas has more talent in his little finger than JJ has in his whole body.
Not anymore he doesn't.
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
I don't know why anyone wants to give Lucas a pass on the prequels. He said he only had enough story for a single movie but he stretched it to 3 because people expected a trilogy and he wanted to make even more money on the prequel project. According to him 60% of the story is in Revenge of the Sith. He deserves ridicule for shitty writing and direction. He even makes good actors look wooden in those films.
And with the most important character he blew the casting/direction in a huge way, not to mention the writing itself is terrible. Anakin is described a very different way in the original Star Wars. What we get in the prequels is a whiny bitch. This is 100% on Lucas.
Force Awakens is too much of a rehash of A New Hope, but it is still miles better than the prequels. Adam Driver's Kylo Ren is probably a better version of what Lucas wanted with Anakin in the prequels. I enjoyed Rey and Finn a lot more than any of the prequel characters. Han Solo was also well done. The worst thing about it of course was the Death Star. That shit is so played out by now. Hopefully we won't see it in the sequels.
Whoa there killa, I ain't giving fat ass a pass on the prequels by a long shot. Lucas might be the biggest flop of a director in history because of those prequels. No director had more talent (McGregor, Neeson, Portman) to work with, more love and momentum from the world to resurrect a beloved franchise, and no more "benefit of the doubt" because he was a God to geeks for creating the source material than Lucas.
And this was Lucas' meeting with Disney for Directing Episode VII...
60% of the material was in Sith. I totally believe that, because of the three, Sith is the most fleshed out an entertaining of the lot.
I'm not giving Lucas a pass on the prequels, overall. I'm giving him a pass on at least ATTEMPTING to come up with an original story. No different than when Paramount decided to continue on the Star Trek film franchise beyond the TOS cast, and adapt it forward with the TNG films (Generations kinda blew tho, the rest I liked). They were trying something fresh.
Abrams, I like the guy and his TV shows, but with films, both the Star Trek & Star Wars reboots have been largely rehashes. I really liked Star Trek 2009, it added alot of old elements and new elements, and very solidly rebooted the franchise. They were also helped by a GREAT cast. However, Into Darkness was a complete (and TOTALLY UN-NECESSARY) rehash of Star Trek II. Star Trek II is basically The Empire Strikes Back of Star Trek films. Nobody needed a reboot, and to take one of the most powerful endings in sci-fi/action movie history, and certainly Star Trek, and to water it down to the dumbest of levels, not to mention gradually taking Star Trek out of the humanist story, the adult-narrative philosophical-aspect that made Star Trek legendary and mature, and to turn it into just a straight action-gimmick... it just seemed lazy and retreading old waters.
Same thing with Episode VII. Lucas took a swing and BIG miss on the prequels, but it was a legit swing. Abrams just kinda took all of the parts that made the original Star Wars trilogy so great, and rehashed them. While watching it, he certainly made the best Star Wars film since Jedi, if not Empire (although I do like Sith). Good job JJ. Some things were great. The new characters mixing with old was done very well, unlike say TNT's Dallas reboot. But the main plot that moved it all along (not complaining about Kylo Ren), about the First Order and the new Death Star was just kinda -- 
-- for me. I would've liked a bit more fleshing out of the First Order, maybe possibly a New World Order -- IN SPACE! gimmick would've been cool, but instead it just felt like another resurrecton of "Dark Side". Hell, they even say it in the film, when they reference the Sith, the Empire, and now the First Order.
I felt that maybe JJ was kinda being controlled by Disney, and couldn't jump too much with the source material, very similar to the same issues that plagued Tim Burton with Batman 1989 and Rob Zombie with Halloween 2007 -- they both had to make a "safe" film for financial reasons. Then they were successful, got their sequel, and went fucking crazy with their follow-ups, and both made films much more their own vision, so much to a point they alienated the fanbase and got canned as directors for future sequels (hell, Zombie effectively killed the Halloween franchise with his sequel in 2009).
Maybe JJ will be allowed to go a bit further with his sequel. Especially being it's gonna obviously feature less Ford and MUCH more Hamill.
Actually just saw TFA for a second time. Still quite enjoyable. It might be recycled material, but most every element of it is better. Especially the acting.
Agreed. This says it best. It's recycled material, but it still has that same great Coke flavor.
That was kind of how I felt watching it.
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
Let's not forget among all the praise for Empire, it has no plot. Zero. Tell me the plot in one or two sentences. You can't. Now, Empire is great. It's just a piece of a larger story with no beginning,end, proper climax, etc.
Also, let's remember George recycled his own idea for the end of Menace. What did the good guys need to do? Destroy a big weapon in space with a daring mission: disable the droid command ship. A lot like destroying the death star in IV and VI.
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
polluxlm wrote:George Lucas has more talent in his little finger than JJ has in his whole body.
Not anymore he doesn't.
Heresy. JJ is a hack, nothing more. Lucas will always be the creator of Star Wars. That type of talent doesn't just whither away.
Let's not forget among all the praise for Empire, it has no plot. Zero. Tell me the plot in one or two sentences. You can't. Now, Empire is great. It's just a piece of a larger story with no beginning,end, proper climax, etc.
Also, let's remember George recycled his own idea for the end of Menace. What did the good guys need to do? Destroy a big weapon in space with a daring mission: disable the droid command ship. A lot like destroying the death star in IV and VI.
"That is why we must capture the Vice Roy, everything depends on it".
That was the most important task in a pronged mission. It's no more recycling than the good guys winning in every hero movie is recycling. Leave the menial tasks to JJ Abrams.
Even Return of the Jedi is less than a rehash than TFA, since the important scenes there are between Luke, Vader and the Emperor. TFA doesn't even pretend to be something else, the characters themselves freely admit this will be another one of those "take out a Death Star".
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*
JJ is not directing the sequels. Rian Johnson is directing the first sequel and Colin Trevorrow is directing the one after it. Abrams did say that he loved Johnson's script for Episode 8 so much that he wishes he could direct it. Johnson is probably the better writer/director of those two, so I think there is a good chance Episode 8 will be quite a bit better than Episode 7. There is no excuse to rehash now and I think Johnson will try to avoid it.
