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Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Izzy's role has been overrated. He's one of the central song writers, not the central song writer. Most of GN'Rs big guns were either written without him or in a supportive role. Jungle, RQ, NR, Civil War, Coma and Estranged are all without Izzy. SCOM is mainly Slash and Axl. PC is Duff, Slash and Axl.
Patience, YCBM and Don't Cry are Izzy's main contributions to the discography. Songs like Dust N Bones, Pretty Tied Up and Double Talking Jive are the songs with Izzy all over them, and while great they aren't the songs that defined the band.
Axl's vocals and arrangements and Slash' guitar are the foundation. The common thread in all their greatest hits. Even those written by Izzy.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Izzy's role has been overrated. He's one of the central song writers, not the central song writer. Most of GN'Rs big guns were either written without him or in a supportive role. Jungle, RQ, NR, Civil War, Coma and Estranged are all without Izzy. SCOM is mainly Slash and Axl. PC is Duff, Slash and Axl.
Patience, YCBM and Don't Cry are Izzy's main contributions to the discography. Songs like Dust N Bones, Pretty Tied Up and Double Talking Jive are the songs with Izzy all over them, and while great they aren't the songs that defined the band.
Axl's vocals and arrangements and Slash' guitar are the foundation. The common thread in all their greatest hits. Even those written by Izzy.
Hear, hear! 
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Slash wanted to throw away the Sweet Child riff. Izzy is the one who thought it was worth turning into a song.
Slash described the writing of Paradise City in a similar way. They were in a van when Slash played the main riff. Izzy and Duff (not just Duff) started playing along when Axl sang the chorus and it went from there.
Izzy is not overrated, it's the other way around. Likewise with Duff. All of them added important elements to each song. Adler is underrated in that regard because you can tell a huge difference (in a bad way) on Illusion records without him.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
I think Niven has it right, you don't know how essential Izzy is until you hear the other guy's material without him in there.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Izzy solo material...at least the juju album has a really cool stones vibe, the only solo effort by a guns member that comes close to that vibe is tommy imho
My fave solo effort tho is 5 o'clock
Then juju, then pawnshop, then tommy
The other 4 orig members definately added a heavyness to izzys songs (which i think is mostly efforts from duff and slash) and without that hard rock element I definately would not have been a fan of gnr ... the music of S&D and the fuck you attitude of Axl were my original draws to gnr...in fact when I listened to the juju album when it first came out I literally threw it out my window of my car onto the highway...my teenage self wasn't ready for that type of music
My favorite individual thing ever in the gnr catalog is the intro interaction between Slash and Duff on SCOM ... then the outro of Coma is second
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
.in fact when I listened to the juju album when it first came out I literally threw it out my window of my car onto the highway...my teenage self wasn't ready for that type of music
Remember being massively let down. "How can a guy from GN'R play such soft music?" was my reaction. He is still the best song writer of the four though.
I actually think none of them are particularly good artists without Axl. Musicians sure, but not artists. His "solo album" is the only one where I want to listen to all the songs more than once. Shows me the number one reason GN'R got big was because of him.
That being said, he needed the talent of the whole band to make it as big as they did. I like CD, but I see it doesn't have the organic quality of the early albums. Not even UYI has that. The original band was a perfect storm.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Izzy's role has been overrated. He's one of the central song writers, not the central song writer. Most of GN'Rs big guns were either written without him or in a supportive role. Jungle, RQ, NR, Civil War, Coma and Estranged are all without Izzy. SCOM is mainly Slash and Axl. PC is Duff, Slash and Axl.
Patience, YCBM and Don't Cry are Izzy's main contributions to the discography. Songs like Dust N Bones, Pretty Tied Up and Double Talking Jive are the songs with Izzy all over them, and while great they aren't the songs that defined the band.
Axl's vocals and arrangements and Slash' guitar are the foundation. The common thread in all their greatest hits. Even those written by Izzy.
Speak for yourself. I know love Think About You more than I do SCoM. DTJ & PTU are close to my favourite tracks on UYI's. I'll always maintain PTU is the direction they should've explored. It's such an amazing piece.
Izzy, more than any of them, is tapped into the source. He's a classic, traditional songwriter. His songs could be folk songs, they could be pop songs, they could be psychedelic hard rock songs - Think About You could've been done by The Crystals or The Ronettes back in the day.
His solo stuff alone, if there never was a guns n roses, would still be an incredible body of work. Think how feted Americana guys like Howe gelb or Ryan Adams are these days, they've got nothing on Izzy. Westerberg's a comparable peer I guess.
I just connect more readily with his influences & songwriting than I do the more pompous self absorbed styling a of Axl & his influences. Slash I wish would play more acoustic stuff, get closer to his Rory Gallagher roots than playing the populist cartoony guy. Izzy's range & unabashed pilfering & homages from reggae to pop is like a gateway to the world I live in. He could've been a New York Doll. When I'm listening to the stuff Axl & Slash come from it's more like I'm visiting (except for Rory G & maybe ELO's Telephone Line - & Todd Rundgren is great too).
Having said all that, you're right about the songs that defined the band.
But every historic band have at least one or two mega hits or identifiable classics & that's it - the Bryan Adams model again is something I like to use.
However, Guns never had any filler. It's what makes them so special.
Even if you take away the famous songs & are just left with Izzy's GnR songs you're still going to get some of the greatest rock songs ever, so I don't see how he's overrated. He's underrated if anything. He's brilliant, knows his stuff, a proper learned craftsman. You should appreciate him more tbh mate, his songs are magic & have the alchemy of the greats.
If I met him I'd give him a hug.
Re atoms nest:
Izzy isn't blazing a trail? What do you want him to be Taylor swift? Phil Collins? Gareth Brooks. He writes great rock n roll records, what more do you want from him?? He does his job & does it real well. Everything else is just wasted/wasteful energy.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
I agree afd = lightening in a bottle
Another album I detested as a kid was blind melon's debut...was frustrated cuz Axl pretty much endorsed it
But now...juju and BM are some of my favorites to pop in from time to time...I could not do without them in my music catalogue...tastes just change I guess
