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Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Then again.....in terms of "An endless cycle of demands"...many of these are pretty reasonable requests from fans.....I mean Axl has at least an album done from many accounts...
Then again I sometimes wonder what people will make of new stuff if they get it. Will those who find Anastasia bland and TWAT self indulgent really like a new song written by the two?
There you go. Sure, there's an album in the can and it would be fun to hear.
But when that happens, people'll start dividing again. Some'll like it, some won't.
If CD2 were to drop tomorrow, many of us would certainly appreciate it for what it is.
Others would tear into it with glee, wanting anything from 1996 tracks to new songs.
Axl has certainly brought a lot of this down on himself by allowing this progression.
I do agree that the back catalogue has been canonized to a ridiculous degree due to this.
We may as well lay back and enjoy the ride. It's amusing to watch the outside world go bonkers.
The forum nerds have an inside track now and we may all grin knowingly at their anticipation.
After the dust settles, maybe we'll have that album.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Smoking Guns wrote:What the hell are we bitching about today?
Hedonic adaptation.
After so many years, we get Axl, Slash and Duff.
After the initial rush, it's Izzy or bust.After Izzy guesting, it's new music.
A never-ending cycle of demands.Each acquiescence creates a new stipulation.
It's impossible for Axl to win everyone over.
Bullshit. We're allowed to debate. Nobody was being a dick to each other or it never got heated, just a difference of opinions.
We're having our cake & eating it too. Some just are able to enjoy it in different layers than others. Some like the whole others like to indenting ingredients & texture.
What do you want us all to do? Be constantly blowing smoke up Axl's ass or talking about what good shape duff is in? We're not a One Direction message board, we're allowed different groups opinions on the serious matter of rock n roll.
But when that happens, people'll start dividing again. Some'll like it, some won't.
If CD2 were to drop tomorrow, many of us would certainly appreciate it for what it is.
Others would tear into it with glee, wanting anything from 1996 tracks to new songs.Axl has certainly brought a lot of this down on himself by allowing this progression.
I do agree that the back catalogue has been canonized to a ridiculous degree due to this.
I completely disagree. The UYI's are still under appreciated to a ridiculous degree & people know that TSI/CD sucks.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
apex-twin wrote:I do agree that the back catalogue has been canonized to a ridiculous degree due to this.
I completely disagree. The UYI's are still under appreciated to a ridiculous degree & people know that TSI/CD sucks.
To explain at least what I was getting at:
Firstly let me say for the record that I actually like ALL of GNR's songs. Yep all of them. Even the ones most people hate (Eg My World) there's something I like about them. That's why GNR is my favourite band - with most bands - when I like them I only like 50% of their material, some even less. But with GNR i pretty much love everything.
So these comments apply ONLY to the idea of contrasting Chinese Democracy and Slash (ie: Snakepit, VR or Self Titled or Conspirators) songs against the GNR catalogue. From here out I will call these Solo Efforts - even though I know Chinese is officially a GNR record and Axl has spoken against the idea that it's a solo outing. But they are solo outings from the perspective of it isn't the full AFD or UYI line up that made them.
Now when I do that - for me - I would say the best of the GNR catalogue is amazing - seriously some of the best stuff of all time - and as such the best GNR tracks are far superior to the Solo Efforts.
However for me it is not the case that ALL and EVERY of the GNR tracks are better than the Solo Efforts.
While I like ALL gnr songs to some extent, some I like more than others, and the ones I don't like as much tend to find themselves equal with the best of the solo stuff - or dare I say it - in some instances even slightly worse.
I don't want to list songs as one thing i've noticed is almost everyone says UYI could be cut down but there's never an agreement on what to cut. One man's "throw away" song is someone else's absolute favourite.
But what I mean is many agree the Solo Efforts would be better if they were made as original GNR tracks. Many feel the solo efforts are not as good as GNR generally.
But i question if that is true in EVERY case. Sure the best of GNR is insanely good. But pick your least favourite old GNR track - what would your reaction be to that if it was released today? Is it really quite as good as we give it credit too - or has the best stuff warped up.
To me i feel that the solo efforts contain some of the best individual performances from the characters. Some of slash's best guitar lines are in snakepit and conspiritors - but they lack Axl. Some of Axl's best vocal performances are amongst the CD songs - but they lack the rest of old GNR.
But i feel there's a culture to deny this. Or maybe it's not true for everyone.
But for me, for instance, I love UYI a lot - but there's a track or two I would gladly swap with an Axl led Anastasia or a Slash led TWAT. Sure it wouldn't be NR or YCBM or the classics...but there's some tracks where I'd have to weigh it up.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
I completely disagree. The UYI's are still under appreciated to a ridiculous degree & people know that TSI/CD sucks.
We lived for a while in the same small city 
. Most 20 somethings I know say that the album sucks, have never heard any of it and think Slash single handily wrote every track before he left.
Their's a generation of rock fans that grew up with nonsense from Kerrang/NME and generic bands from the 2000's, that push the agenda that "Appetite For Destruction" and "Greatest Hits" were the only albums the band ever made that count.
Honestly fuck the casuals who've heard "Civil War" and "Knockin' On Heaven's Door", but don't remember "14 Years" or "Dust N' Bones". I went to a Velvet Revolver gig a decade ago at the Odyssey and stood near the stage with people who had no fucking idea who Duff or anyone besides Slash was, yet knew how to sing along to "Mr. Brownstone" and "Fall To The Pieces".
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
My friends & I bonded just as much over UYI & Lies as we did AFD.
I think if people listened, or reappraised, the Illusions they'd be genuinely gobsmacked at the dexterity & quality on them.
I'm not necessarily a fan but I know the guy from Biffie Clyro has UYI tattoo & cited it as an influence on one of their albums.
Honestly if people could just get past the noise & bs they'd find two truly mind blowing & inventive rock albums that deserve to rank alongside the all time greats.
Maybe people will come back to them.
Monkey - that goes back to something polluxlm said, that none of the solo material has been worthy of GnR. I didn't even bother replying cause I'd immediately thought of 5 straight off the bat without needing to research further, solo songs of the quality of anything off TSI or Back off Bitch. It's preposterous to suggest they didn't write GnR worthy quality without Axl's input.
Hell Izzy could've stayed in the band & sang a song or two on record like he did UYI or Duff likewise, could've done with Come on Now Inside or the like no bother while Axl's off backstage getting his pole waxed/oxygen.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Well, is BOB worthy? Not every GN'R song is a classic. Most, but not all.
Their solo careers show that Axl was critical to the creative process. Even bad ass riffs like Slither are marred by the uninspired mediocrity of Weiland, and he was the best singer they worked with.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
Well, is BOB worthy? Not every GN'R song is a classic. Most, but not all.
Their solo careers show that Axl was critical to the creative process. Even bad ass riffs like Slither are marred by the uninspired mediocrity of Weiland, and he was the best singer they worked with.
I wouldn't call Weiland mediocre – he was up there with Axl in terms of his passion and ability to craft a phrase. The only thing he didn't have was the vocal range. Passion and writing ability are what differentiate them from the herd – with almost all of the GN'R solo stuff, particularly Slash's efforts, the music's perfectly good but it's let down by what the singer's scribbled on a notepad. There's usually a line in every Slash solo song that makes me cringe ("Nervous twitchin' in my hands," "Starlight, don't you cry we're going to make it right," "Gonna make my way down to Mexico.").
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
polluxlm wrote:Well, is BOB worthy? Not every GN'R song is a classic. Most, but not all.
Their solo careers show that Axl was critical to the creative process. Even bad ass riffs like Slither are marred by the uninspired mediocrity of Weiland, and he was the best singer they worked with.
I wouldn't call Weiland mediocre – he was up there with Axl in terms of his passion and ability to craft a phrase. The only thing he didn't have was the vocal range. Passion and writing ability are what differentiate them from the herd – with almost all of the GN'R solo stuff, particularly Slash's efforts, the music's perfectly good but it's let down by what the singer's scribbled on a notepad. There's usually a line in every Slash solo song that makes me cringe ("Nervous twitchin' in my hands," "Starlight, don't you cry we're going to make it right," "Gonna make my way down to Mexico.").
The Weiland bashing is often political. Some people just don't like what alternative rock represented.
His skill and the range of feeling he could put in his voice was second to none. His writing was top drawer world class stuff.
He knew how to not be cheesy and how to subvert the cliches of rock n roll just enough that his songs felt fresh but still had that rock n roll vibe. A true master.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
polluxlm wrote:Well, is BOB worthy? Not every GN'R song is a classic. Most, but not all.
Their solo careers show that Axl was critical to the creative process. Even bad ass riffs like Slither are marred by the uninspired mediocrity of Weiland, and he was the best singer they worked with.
I wouldn't call Weiland mediocre – he was up there with Axl in terms of his passion and ability to craft a phrase. The only thing he didn't have was the vocal range. Passion and writing ability are what differentiate them from the herd – with almost all of the GN'R solo stuff, particularly Slash's efforts, the music's perfectly good but it's let down by what the singer's scribbled on a notepad. There's usually a line in every Slash solo song that makes me cringe ("Nervous twitchin' in my hands," "Starlight, don't you cry we're going to make it right," "Gonna make my way down to Mexico.").
He's mediocre in VR. Maybe because I consider a vocalist without range as useless as a guitar player without solos, or because he was old and deep in drugs at the time.
The Weiland bashing is often political. Some people just don't like what alternative rock represented.
His skill and the range of feeling he could put in his voice was second to none. His writing was top drawer world class stuff.
He knew how to not be cheesy and how to subvert the cliches of rock n roll just enough that his songs felt fresh but still had that rock n roll vibe. A true master.
That's a thing, bashing alt rock? Jesus...
His writing may have been good in STP, or fit that music, but in VR I don't see it. His major achievement was not sounding bad like Slash' other singers. His voice is pretty decent for a rock singer, but the match with VR didn't strike me as very organic. That type of band is screaming for a vocalist with an impressive range.
Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs
polluxlm wrote:The Weiland bashing is often political. Some people just don't like what alternative rock represented.
His skill and the range of feeling he could put in his voice was second to none. His writing was top drawer world class stuff.
He knew how to not be cheesy and how to subvert the cliches of rock n roll just enough that his songs felt fresh but still had that rock n roll vibe. A true master.That's a thing, bashing alt rock? Jesus...
Well that is my impression I could be wrong. I've seen some hard-rock purists who will only respect AC/DC, GNR, Maiden, and the other big hard hitters. The alternative stuff they tend to shrug off as inauthentic.
His writing may have been good in STP, or fit that music, but in VR I don't see it. His major achievement was not sounding bad like Slash' other singers. His voice is pretty decent for a rock singer, but the match with VR didn't strike me as very organic. That type of band is screaming for a vocalist with an impressive range.
I think in terms of best people Slash has played with, after Axl, Rod Jackson set the standard.
