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Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
Funny how they intentionally leave out the part where years later it was discovered that the belts are far more dangerous to humans than previously thought.
Why do tests need to be done on how it will impact humans when we should already know how humans can handle it due to missions forty years ago? Shouldn't it be easy as pie now that the technology has rapidly advanced?
edit: I love that comment on the vid when talking about new advanced shielding that will be "put to the test" to try and protect the craft from the VA belts.....
Why not just use the shielding that was used for the Apollo missions?
NASA engineer: "Shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space."
Hey James, sorry to bring this up again, I'm not picking on you and I don't think you're a wackaloo or anything, but I've been thinking about this and doing some research - mostly because I couldn't explain it either, and science is an interest of mine - and I wanted to share what I've found.
The NASA website goes into more detail about the Orion mission and what they need to learn from the Van Allen belt:
http://www.nasa.gov/content/five-things … light-test
Radiation Levels – Traveling 15 times farther into space than the International Space Station will take Orion beyond the radiation protection offered by Earth’s atmosphere and magnetic field. In fact, the majority of EFT-1 will take place inside the Van Allen Belts, clouds of heavy radiation that surround Earth. No spacecraft built for humans has passed through the Van Allen Belts since the Apollo missions, and even those only passed through the belts – they didn’t linger.
Future crews don’t plan to spend more time than necessary inside the Van Allen Belts, either, but long missions to deep space will expose them to more radiation than astronauts have ever dealt with before. EFT-1’s extended stay in the Van Allen Belts offers a unique opportunity to see how Orion’s shielding will hold up to it. Sensors will record the peak radiation seen during the flight, as well as radiation levels throughout the flight, which can be mapped back to geographic hot spots.
Basically, in the Apollo mission, astronauts just passed through the belt quickly, the Orion mission plans to linger there. (This is consistent with the NASA video, when the engineer is talking about crossing the belt, he's also drawing a trajectory around the Earth, and it looks to be an orbiting trajectory. The goal is to spend more time there, to simulate long term radiation exposure, to make sure the shielding is strong enough for long term missions, that may expose people to more radiation.
Here's a Popular Science video that talks about Apollo crossing the Van Allen belt:
The video is consistent with what NASA is saying about the Apollo and Orion missions. What's interesting about the Pop Science video, is that they admit that crossing the Van Allen belt was a gamble, but that they were willing to take the risk and they went anyway.
Also interesting, Amy Shira Teitel is pretty fucking cute.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
I'm definitely NOT a "wackaloo". Neither is polluxlm although he does have a LOT more doubt than I do about these space missions. I'm a genuine fence straddler on the Apollo missions. They could've gone there but just as easily didn't go. JUst the fact that Von Braun was involved pushes me a tad closer to the 'they did go' side but I think there will always be questions until a probe, rover, or photographs are taken of the area we landed at, and that will silence the doubts forever.
She makes good points on the radiation I'll give her that, but she also says that there were greater risks on the trip. I agree....especially on getting back from the Moon. I need to read more on the issue. I'll check Amazon for some books about the first moon landing.
I WANT the missions to have happened. Like you, I have always been fascinated by astronomy(and science in general) and I hope to see many more discoveries in my lifetime. The Pluto photographs from last year are mind blowing. Same thing with Ceres. I also hope we land on Mars in my lifetime. I don't think Mars is as sterile/dead as many believe and its likely going to require people there walking around(especially in those caverns) to find something. While I don't think ET is hanging around on Mars, I do believe there are discoveries to be made. I also think its time to go back to Venus.
As far as gambles go, same thing with The Manhattan project. Scientists said there was a risk we'd fry the entire atmosphere by detonating an atomic bomb. They did it anyways. There will always be risks when it comes to scientific endeavors. Imagine the risks involved on the first manned flight to Mars.
The conspiracy stuff.....while I do believe in some(like JFK).....not everything is a conspiracy. I think the conspiracy sites do a disservice to real conspiracies as they believe EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. It caused me to stop reading them.
Yes....Amy Teitel is cute. Girl next door....
I used to read Popular Science for years. GREAT magazine.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
One thing I never liked about the whole thing and always gave me doubts is how in the living hell were they able to get OFF the moon back up to the probe? Yes I've heard the official story but I don't see how it is feasible in those conditions. You've had ZERO experience doing it, you only get ONE chance, and it goes off without a hitch.
Getting man to the moon, while extremely difficult and maybe impossible, is the LEAST of your worries. It's getting them BACK that is the big problem. What were their plans if they couldn't get them off the moon? If this is 100% legit, there had to be contingency plans in place. What were they?
I recently went to a seminar with Buzz Aldrin where he addressed some of this.
He was asked how they dealt with the fear. He said fear mostly comes from surprises. What NASA did was spend months working out what they know, what know they don't know, and what they think they know and so on. Then they work out a chain of events for every possible contingency.
Eg: Flick switch. Light either comes on or doesn't. If it does, open valve. If it doesn't check wire. If wire burnt then X, if wire not burnt then Y. If X then...and so on and so on.
They talk through and plan out everything that could happen.
Many of the contingencies end in "We Die", Some of them end in "Step into recovery boat on earth".
Basically they would have had a contingency for as many mechanical issues as possible, beyond that, the plan is they die, the president addresses the nation and speaks of their brave sacrifice in the furtherment of their nation and of science and how they made it to a place no one ever has before.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
I think there will always be questions until a probe, rover, or photographs are taken of the area we landed at, and that will silence the doubts forever.
We have satellite pictures of the Apollo 11 landing site. Here's another video by the lovely Amy:
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
Most if not all of the so-called 'proof' that the moon landing was a hoax has been debunked scientifically, which is my favorite way of having things debunked. The no-tracks thing for instance could be argued from a 'common sense' non-scientific angle: "why would they go out of their way to crane-lift the rover from location to location instead of just pushing it around and creating tracks", which is a fine argument. But, more scientifically, there are photos of the rover going from one location to the next (two photos, taken seconds apart, with the rover about 12 inches further down) which show no tracks yet clearly showing soil falling from the mud flaps. That indicates that, in that type of soil the rover did not create tracks. Knowing the weight of the rover, and the average weight of the astronauts, it is clearly demonstrable that the pressure on an individual rover tire when fully loaded is actually lower than the amount of pressure on a singe foot. When carrying only one person, it is about half. That easily explains why there are footprints, yet no tire tracks.
This is photo one, of the rover standing still: 
AS15-85-11470 by Project Apollo Archive
This is the photo taken right after, of the rover clearly about 12 inches further down (look at the white rock-like looking thing): 
AS15-85-11471 by Project Apollo Archive
The problem with most of these theories is that they are the result of a bunch of pseudo-scientists lifting out small pieces of data and analyzing them in a specific way to come to a pre-determined conclusion. It usually takes the form of "look at this detail, I can't explain it, so the whole thing must be faked" and ignores all of the other evidence that supports NASA's claims. The rover no-track claim is a good example of this.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
Yes, given that the soil has different properties in different locations that's not really unexpected. The depth of the bedrock is not the same in each location, for instance. Neither is the compactness of the top soil (it was more compacted/denser at the location where the flag was planted, for instance).
The fact that there are variations in track and footprint depth, to me, lends credence to this being real. If this was done on a sound stage things would be much more consistent.
