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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Maybe. For me the "problem" with Sanders is not his stated policies. They mostly look sensible and intelligent, and I agree with many of them. What makes me reject him is the way he talks. When he goes on about "the big bad rich" I see that as coming from the mind of a communist. Then looking into his past and I find communist ties, the deal is off for me. Communism is what I fear the most, and if there's a chance a candidate is that, I'm not buying him however good a game he talks (and Bernie talks a good game).
If Bernie took the test I'm pretty confident he would land much more to the left. There's just no way he chooses some of the same options I did. I think "his results" as done by the site are projections on what they'd like him to be. Trump also suggests this as he is simply not that far right as in that chart. Trump has many socialist leanings.
As is he's supposedly more right wing than Hitler...
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Not a bad assessment, in my view.
It's not. My question is, do you trust him?
If I did, I would consider Bernie. He talks a similar game to Trump, and he's more intelligent about it. Yet I'm not feeling the Bern.
Bernie is pandering to people that want free shit. That alone pisses me off because it comes across to me as "vote for me, I will get you the free shit". NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. SOMEBODY ALWAYS HAS TO PAY. So I don't like those kinds of promises. I do however respect his passion and intentions. And on many things I agree. But he is only going after one kind of voter. Seems to hate rich people.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Maybe. For me the "problem" with Sanders is not his stated policies. They mostly look sensible and intelligent, and I agree with many of them. What makes me reject him is the way he talks. When he goes on about "the big bad rich" I see that as coming from the mind of a communist. Then looking into his past and I find communist ties, the deal is off for me. Communism is what I fear the most, and if there's a chance a candidate is that, I'm not buying him however good a game he talks (and Bernie talks a good game).
Looking at it from a European perspective, I agree with you: I'd never vote for someone using Bernie's rhetoric on our side of the pond. I'd vote (and have voted) for parties that have very similar policies though. However, in the context of the US I'm willing to give him a pass on that for a number of reasons:
- The two-party system forces him to be more outspoken to get the nomination for 'his' party, to set him apart from Hillary. In a parliamentary democracy with multiple viable parties you can (need to) be more nuanced in your positions.
- The American media feeds on polarization (more than most European media does). In order to get any amount of screen time, he needs to exaggerate and simplify his message more than a similar candidate would in Europe.
- In order to effectively bring his message across, get through to the average American citizen, and pierce through the "USA is #1 in everything" reality distortion field that some perpetuate, he needs to create a threat to the American Way of Life(tm), a boogeyman if you will, and big nameless corporations are an obvious and easy target, especially given that they really have contributed significantly to the wealth gap over the past few years/decades.
- There's no way in hell that the American people will allow anyone to turn their country into a communist authoritarian nation, the US constitution has many provision that provide protections against that and 4 years (or 8) is not nearly enough time to dismantle that entire framework. So even if you buy into the idea that Bernie is a real communist (he isn't), 4 years of having him in charge is likely to push the US more in the direction of a Western European-style Social Democracy (which would be a good thing), it'll never be enough to push the country over the edge into full blown Communism (a very very bad thing).
In short: the US needs Bernie at this point in its history.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
My question is, do you trust him?
I do, more so than Hillary (the only other viable candidate for me) at least. And way more than I trust Trump or Cruz. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he's willing to say anything to get elected (and has changed positions on issues in a matter of days), which makes the search for his real policy positions akin to searching for a needle in a haystack. Obfuscating your real positions for the sake of electability that badly makes him very untrustworthy for me.
Cruz... well, anyone that religious should not be president if you care about personal liberties.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I know why Smoking doubts the accuracy of the test, but there's many other attempts to simulate the test. Most politicians always end up on the same side of the spectrum, a few policies/statements don't change who people are.
Most people don't vote for politicians that represent them and that's as far left as Sanders really goes in most fair tests. I've seen people assume Sanders/Obama are far left/libertarian. Those tests are generally just people drawing circles and not doing the test fairly.
I'd be fascinated if any remaining Evo members here take the test and ended up in the blue.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
polluxlm wrote:Not a bad assessment, in my view.
It's not. My question is, do you trust him?
If I did, I would consider Bernie. He talks a similar game to Trump, and he's more intelligent about it. Yet I'm not feeling the Bern.
Bernie is pandering to people that want free shit. That alone pisses me off because it comes across to me as "vote for me, I will get you the free shit". NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. SOMEBODY ALWAYS HAS TO PAY. So I don't like those kinds of promises. I do however respect his passion and intentions. And on many things I agree. But he is only going after one kind of voter. Seems to hate rich people.
I don't think he hates rich people, at all. I think he mostly hates the influence the extremely rich exert over the political system (which he has in common with Trump).
He also isn't pandering, he clearly really believes that people deserve access to basic healthcare, education, minimum wage and public infrastructure regardless of their income level. And he clearly says where the money needs to come from. He's nothing if not transparent about it.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Not sure if this will work or not, but here's mine:
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
In short: the US needs Bernie at this point in its history.
No. We need a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Enough of the back and forth. We need stabilization in a positive direction. If someone truly fit this description and could generate name recognition, they would be an easy winner.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Well, no way this is accurate now...
There were NOT enough questions about economic policy and there was no "indifferent" it was either agree or disagree which skews you to a certain direction. Sanders should be down there by the Mole and Big Bri honestly because we know Pollux and I don't jive with Sanders that closely. I jive with him on somethings however.
To be fair, several, if not many of those questions, i would have answered "indifferent."
