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Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
From where I am, the United States, I only know what the news tells me. The BBC is devastated. Fox is indifferent. MSNBC is kind of sad. They all fear since this happened in the UK that it means Trump has a real shot to win the general election.
They'd be right I guess. Didn't expect this at all myself.
If Trump wins in November however, Brexit will look like a walk in the park. Now that will be historical.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
Northern Ireland though nope. Too much of our parents generation (the kind that grew up bombing each other and hating based upon religion). No chance of a referendum here (for a united Ireland), too much risk.
Ian Paisley Jnr advising people to get Irish passports. I feel like I woke up in bizarro world.
That point about farmers in an earlier post - if there's one community that has benefited from EU membership, grants & regulations it's been the farmers. I used to work in the department for agriculture and even in that brief time what I saw was all the labourers were immigrants (I had to issues licenses & permits, just a rubber stamping thing), & all the grants & directives my bosses dealt with were sent from Brussels, and I remember a couple of times them being amazed at the generous terms the farmers were getting - like for planting a particular type of feed or crop or such they'd get these huge subsidies that must've been unheard of before.
But strangely a lot of them seem to have voted leave. A little like in Sunderland & the Nissan factory, or all fucking of Wales.
There's an auld boy who's a farmer, lives down the road from me. He's been leave from the get go. He's a free mason. I didn't even know they still existed. I just laughed him off y'know as a bit of banter without getting into with him, but I just couldn't understand why he was letting his emotions cloud his judgement like that. I'll prob see him at some stage today, see what kinda form he's in. Probably hung over..
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
Serious question.....
How many referendums do you guys want? The people have spoken.
One more Hitler plebiscite comin' right up!
I've always wanted to visit Europe and hope to do so before I die but I cant imagine living under that system. LIke, we voted Obama in. We made a mistake. Can we vote again? This time he can only win if 75% of the people vote! Oh that didn't give us what we want? Ok, change it to 80% the third time.
Its like Europe just makes the rules up as it goes along.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
Oh please.
What do you mean "under that system"? I see alot of Americans thinking that this is great, I don't think most of you actually know what the implications of this were.
Turnout among my generation seems like it was only around 40%. Alot of people voted based upon propaganda and nonsense from a rich Australian who owns most of the right wing media. The LEAVE campaign have been on TV for the past few months blatantly lying to people.
It's been a fucking campaign based upon a right wing civil war with alot of peoples jobs, futures at stake. Cameron only held this referdum, because he thought he could win a few more votes. He didn't actually expect people to leave. Boris the head of the leave campaign, probably didn't expect leave to win either.
Should also be kept in mind that the swing to LEAVE happened in the past few weeks. People threw in a protest vote against their government, not thinking about the consequences.
If their was a vote even today, it would probably be different once people actually figured it out. Also keep in mind, we haven't actually got to the part where we actually leave.
If we had remained by the same percentage, their would have been calls for a second referendum citing this being too small a percentage. Boris probably still would have ended up PM with Cameron forced to resign (albeit in different circumstances, due to his parties infighting), but he wouldn't have had another referendum. He campaigned for this, so that he would be seen as the heroic figure valiant in defeat. It's unlikely he ever expected to win.
Actually he compared the FREE MARKET/TTIP to Churchill and praised all of this just a few years ago. The only difference now was that he had a chance to become PM if he changed his mind.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
Serious question.....
How many referendums do you guys want? The people have spoken.
One more Hitler plebiscite comin' right up!
I've always wanted to visit Europe and hope to do so before I die but I cant imagine living under that system.
Its like Europe just makes the rules up as it goes along.
You don't know what you're talking about mate, & your constant references to hitler are increasingly misplaced & bizarre. What the hell does one more hitler plebiscite mean? You're completely misreading & misjudging the situation.
Referendums are part of the democratic process. No surprise an American can't imagine living under such a system.
The people have spoken & we're still speaking.
The people who have campaigned for leave have yesterday already reneged on at least 2 of their promises - on the touted £350mil/NHS funding & stopping immigration. There is a substantial section of brexiters who have already expressed regret over their vote. Why should they not have a chance to reverse the decision? Just because you think that should be the end of the matter??
In 2001-2002 the Republic of Ireland had 2 referendums on an EU treaty, the first referendum rejected the treaty, the 2nd passed it. Exactly the same thing happened in 2008-2009. In 1992 they had 3 referendums on abortion, after the first was defeated - were they wrong to do that?!
This is different from just passing a treaty of course, but the consequences for the republic were the same - ultimately they would've had to leave the EU had they not reached a compromise.
The immediate aftermath & impact are certainly cause for speculation, never mind the conduct prior & during the campaign. People are reevaluating what they've done. Nothing is legally binding yet. In fact Cameron could take it to commons & the MP's reject the Brexit. Ironically that would be the most democratic outcome possible. The MP's would finally be doing their jobs & serving their country & its people's best interest. That's even more unlikely to happen than another referendum mind, cause Cameron doesn't have the stomach for it (never did).
I don't get these hitler references.. Weird thing to keep bringing up.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
It was a goddamn joke. They wanted a certain result and they got it. Go look up the plebiscite and how you guys have described how propaganda was used in this one.
I made two references....that isn't "constant".
Referendums are part of the democratic process. No surprise an American can't imagine living under such a system.
I know what a referendum is. Yeah...cant imagine a society that wants to just continuously keep voting on something until it gets exactly what it wants.
I understand people fearing the coming unknown but on this side of the pond, you discuss these things before voting, not after a vote while begging for another chance to vote, and then after that vote, another one...
The people who have campaigned for leave have yesterday already reneged on at least 2 of their promises - on the touted £350mil/NHS funding & stopping immigration.
Now THAT is pathetic.
THis hasn't been getting as much coverage here(well NOW it is) and the past couple weeks I have been dealing with a health scare that I might go into some detail on when I know the real diagnosis so forgive me if I haven't been keeping up on all the breaking news coming out of the EU. I've been in hospitals and dr offices getting tests and other shit.
I've actually learned most of what I know on this crisis reading the opinions of Evo members dealing with it and I appreciate all of your opinions on the matter.
I'll drop the "constant" Hitler references.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
Turnout among my generation seems like it was only around 40%
Atari...this is aproblem everywhere...including here. Young people like to bitch and moan but they somehow get lost on the way to a polling station. When such monumental events that can literally change the course of European history put the contionent at stake, there needs to be records broken at the polls.
Is this second referendum REALLY going to change anything?
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
A petition calling for a new EU referendum has no chance of reversing this week’s historic vote to leave, according to one of Britain’s foremost elections expert.
Professor John Curtice, whose exit poll was the only one to predict the Conservatives would win last year’s general election and who has earned a near sage-like reputation among journalists, said the subject was so divisive within mainstream political parties and their supporters that it would be unlikely to form a campaigning issue for some time, let alone spark another public vote.
Thursday’s referendum saw 17.4 million (51.9%) votes cast to leave the EU, compared with 16.1 million (48.1%) for remaining part of the bloc, with a turnout of 72.2%, according to the Electoral Commission.
Re: The United Kingdom General Election, 2nd May 2024
BBC are bringing up the petition on news reports now after the media were downplaying it earlier in the day. Expect the petition to really start picking up votes.
That said, at most the petition will be discussed then dismissed. I don't think it'll go anywhere, but it's important that it's discussed that alot of people didn't vote for this.
I understand people fearing the coming unknown but on this side of the pond, you discuss these things before voting, not after a vote while begging for another chance to vote, and then after that vote, another one...
These things weren't really discussed though. The past several months have just been inflammatory nonsense/lies with people yelling "you're wrong"... kind of like on an Internet forum.
Their's been discussion about immigration and numbers being paid, but no explanation of what money is actually spent on. Lots of mentions of red tape, no explanation that many of those things the Tories call red tape are actually our rights.
It's been all about propaganda. This isn't democracy.
