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Re: Turkish Army Attempt to Stage Coup
johndivney wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:No military should ever take over control of their country. Civilian control of the military is crucial to any democracy.
That's a weird thing to say anyway. As in it's never right for a military to step in & protect its own people from an oppressive government/leader? Surely the fundamental point of a military is to protect its countries people,mine that from threats inside or out.
But where is the line drawn? And no government can oppress its people without the military helping them do it. Edrogan can issue edicts, but if his military and police forces don't enforce them, he's a lion with no teeth.
A lot of people in the US thought Bush/Obama was a tyrant. You could spin a million different things to a point it appears a threat. If you believed Bush was behind 9/11, shouldn't you want the military to remove him from power? If you think Obama is setting up FEMA camps to imprison citizens who disagree, shouldn't the military intervene?
I believe in Democracy, as flawed as it is. The military's purpose is to follow the orders of the democratically elected leaders. That Turkey's military has assigned themselves as the keepers of secularism and freedom (an admittedly honorable notion) doesn't mean that they have the legal authority to do so.
As they allegedly had F-16s locked on to Edrogan's plane and didn't fire makes me think this may all have been a hoax anyway, especially with the purging that has occurred since. The EU should put pressure on Turkey to conform to western standards, but I don't believeTurkey will ever be admitted to the EU. It would open Europe to a flood of Islamist like never before as poor, uneducated Arabs enter Turkey through Iraq and Syria. And since you need universal approval to enter the EU, it's very unlikely you're every going to get unanimous consent.
100% correct, and well put. As much as I hate Erdogan and the damage he's doing to his country, he has the support of a large part of his people and is their democratically elected leader; the military should respect that. Selfishly, I would've preferred the coup to have been successful though. It's disconcerting to see him abusing this coup to push through even more authoritarian legislation.
Re: Turkish Army Attempt to Stage Coup
Randall Flagg wrote:But where is the line drawn?
100% correct, and well put. As much as I hate Erdogan and the damage he's doing to his country, he has the support of a large part of his people and is their democratically elected leader; the military should respect that. Selfishly, I would've preferred the coup to have been successful though. It's disconcerting to see him abusing this coup to push through even more authoritarian legislation.
There you. You can't have it both ways.
The line has been drawn for me.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in democracy, even tho I've been on the losing side of every vote I've taken part in bar 1! (I just don't think we see true democracy in action very often. More often you see an abuse of it).
But the line for me is pretty clear here.
Re: Turkish Army Attempt to Stage Coup
The attempt was so weak I'm inclined to put it in the hoax category. Something giving Erdogan an excuse to implement extreme measures.
As to the legality of coups I'll quote Anthony from Rome: If we lose it's a crime, if we win it isn't.
Re: Turkish Army Attempt to Stage Coup
The attempt was so weak I'm inclined to put it in the hoax category. Something giving Erdogan an excuse to implement extreme measures.
Yea I heard this and thought of it at the time.
Then I thought of you.
But yea a "fake coup" is a possibility to gain even more power & implement this purge.
