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Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Axl's direction for Guns seemed to be half hip-hop and half electronica, mixed with rock elements.
And here, in 2017 and for the last decade plus both hip hop and electronica have ruled the roost.
The fanbase would bristle thinking about it but songs like Oh My God and Silkworms are contemporary in today's market. He just needed to make an album full of that type of material (he probably did, to be honest). And sadly the men for the job, Pitman and Buckethead, are long goners.
It's be interesting to know how far down the electronica rabbit hole he went.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Thing is you have to do what you're good at.
As a rock vocalist - Axl was one of the best in the world - arguably the absolute best in the world during his prime - fuck it he's still the go-to guy when it's time to solve an impossible problem like how to replace a guy like Brian Johnston in Ac/Dc! Even these days.
He likes Hip Hop and Electronica...but that doesn't automatically translate to being top level at that talent.
He didn't want to be locked into a genre and I get it - but the music game is the people who are the best at stuff doing what they do.
"It Tastes Good Don't It" was kinda cool - but it's not exactly Eminem worthy.
Shackler's Revenge isn't really Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails.
In a way i respect he wanted to try something new, but being a fan of something doesn't mean you're suited to do that thing, even if you love it. That's why I don't work in WWE.
Axl has amazing talent as a songwriter and performer..but I question how many different genres it was realistic to think he'd be worldclass at.
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
You have a point but there are only so many love songs / angry young person songs you can write.
All artists branch out to survive. Eminem flirted with pop and went whole hog on his later comeback albums.
And nothing Axl has released is anything near Marilyn Manson or Nine Inch Nails in terms of the sound. Totally different. Axl has not made a concept album nor are the styles familiar. Shackler's is derivative of Buckethead and a band that was inspired by Guns N' Roses.
Axl needed to release an album of Oh My Gods, an album of Betters, and an album of Prostitutes. Unfortunately, we got saddled with an overwrought compilation album.
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Oh My God alone is better than half of shit NIN, Manson and Rob Zombie have crapped out.
Are you fucking kidding me ? Manson, fucking Manson ? a definition of a phony poser who never had an original idea of his own. Zombie was even worse.
Everyone knows my opinion on Nine Inch Shit so.....
All Axl need was self-confidence which he clearly lacked back then.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
I like Axl more too...i'm just saying he went after those styles...but that sort of computer heavy music is entirely different to everything he'd previously succeeded in.
I guess it's good to be ambitious. But it would have been better suited to a solo album like most bands do, or if it was GNR then a short project album like LuLu from metallica...before continuing on with GNR as what GNR is.
But instead Axl had plans to slowly reeducate the public on what GNR means....over the course of 3 albums...all while teaching himself guitar and how to use computers...
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Also while I agree Manson has put out a fair amount of crap - when he writes a straight up rock song they can be pretty good:
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Manson got stuck in 1990's, as his greatest stuff was recorded/released during that era, or maybe more precisely until 2001 (Holy Wood was the final part of The Trilogy, with Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals on par at his peak era). he tried reinventing himself, and the Grotesque album was also very very good, at least I think so, but all subsequent stuff was totally shitty, with just a few exceptions (a number of songs at EMDM which is in fact a Skold album anyway, about 2 songs at HEOL and maybe 1 cover at BV). at the last album (which is in turn more a Tyler Bates album featuring Manson), there are about 5 good songs, which I like listening to, but still it's far from awesome.
his case nicely illustrates how an interesting and creative artist gets burnt out quickly and totally out of creative ideas and it can happen during a very short timeline. Manson of the last 10+ years can only be described as uninspired, bored and unable to step out of his own shadow.
yes, parallels with Axl are there indeed.
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
Well said, Zombie friend.
The High End of Low was like all Manson records in that it was way too long but in my view that album is really underrated. He started experimenting with acoustic guitars and digging into more personal themes in his writing.
It was very much a precursor to The Pale Emperor which is a great record. That and Mechanical Animals are masterworks. You can have the rest.
It was also produced by Sean Beavan and Matt Sorum replacement candidate Chris Vrenna. Six degrees of Chinese.
The album flopped, unfortunately. And what did Manson do? Retreat to his tired schtick and record Born Villain which could only be described as "aggressively boring".
Salem collaborator Tyler Bates was his savior on The Pale Emperor but his much delayed new album doesn't sound promising.
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
well, I think there's only one truly good song at HEOL - and it's Into The Fire, which is totally non-mansonic fragile thingie with a beautiful guitar solo (have you ever thought something from Manson stuff can be described as beautiful, maybe except for some stuff from Mechanical Animals, where it was deliberate?). also Devour sounds promising, but I think the teasy-teasy way they did it, which gets anti-climatic right when one expects a powerful chorus and instead it backs off, pisses me off, lol!
and yup. there were some connections to GNR. besides Chris Vrenna, there was a certain guy named Robin Finck who helped working at the very first album (Portrait of an American Family), though uncredited. but that album can hardly be described as a Manson album, it was more Trent Reznor album, using the Manson band as his alter-ego-evil-project... or maybe more precisely said - indeed it was a Manson album (a bootleg of pre-Reznor mixes exists and it's wicked), but only Trent made it sound brutal and modern, his work culminating in Antichrist Superstar which was a huge shock.
haha, for me personally, I only started discovering new music because Axl and Guns were on hiatus and I desperately needed something fresh and new. and then I've discovered Antichrist Superstar and my world has never been the same again 
Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses
It's funny we should be talking about Manson since I took a long sabbatical from his work and only recently revisited it.
I've listened to the pre-Reznor mix and the demos of Antichrist Superstar which are both killer. I've dreamt that the Beavan sessions produced a raw version of Chinese much like ACSS. Messy and we don't care. "The raw sounds... not good enough" line from Tommy gave me hope.
I like the acoustic version bonus tracks. Running to the Edge of the World in particular. He also did this on Pale Emperor with slight remixes and stripped back sound. Good stuff.
The ginger could do much to atone for his sins. The only losing move is not to play.
