You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
I keep hearing about how Confederate statues preserve our history and heritage, and taking them down would erase that.
To that I say, where are all the monuments to the slaves or freedmen or those who led slave rebellions?
https://www.google.com/search?q=john+br … 20&bih=974
http://www.mountvernon.org/george-washi … nt-vernon/
Re: US Politics Thread
bigbri wrote:I keep hearing about how Confederate statues preserve our history and heritage, and taking them down would erase that.
To that I say, where are all the monuments to the slaves or freedmen or those who led slave rebellions?
https://www.google.com/search?q=john+br … 20&bih=974
http://www.mountvernon.org/george-washi … nt-vernon/
Well, now you've added museums and historic structures to the conversation.
There are hundreds if not thousands of Confederate monuments and the like. The list of Confederate honors absolutely dwarfs those dedicated to slavery.
Here's a Confederate list. It's a long scroll.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
I couldn't tell you where the nearest confederate monument is to me. Gettysburg? Nor could I tell you the closest union monument to me. Gettysburg?
I just think a bunch of bored people with too much time and comfort are looking for ways to be insulted. Slavery ended 150 years ago. No one alive had anything to do with it. We might as well be discussing the battle of Thermopylae.
Re: US Politics Thread
Well, people are being insulted on both sides. And I agree, people are actively looking for ways to be angry. But the argument that taking down confederate monuments is erasing history doesn't hold water for me. We pretty much already erased the history of the other side of the coin, or are trying to.
Re: US Politics Thread
Trump gives me plenty to be angry about and it's pretty legit if you ask me.
And he's failing miserably. He's failed to accomplish anything of significance.
He's done nothing to help anyone but himself lining his own pockets at with his hotel in DC and his various other make himself richer schemes.
I dare you to list one virtuous trait.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
You guys do know the Civil War was not about slavery, right? It was about MONEY and then Slavery became a convenient talking point where the importantence grew and grew. The south had the better generals. The North was had more money and soldiers but were lead by a damn drunk. The North also had slaves... basically in many ways the North was oppressing the South. I am glad the North won and we are one country and slavery was ended. But let's not live in a fairytale and pretend the war was about freeing blacks. It simply was not.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
You guys do know the Civil War was not about slavery, right? It was about MONEY and then Slavery became a convenient talking point where the importantence grew and grew. The south had the better generals. The North was had more money and soldiers but were lead by a damn drunk. The North also had slaves... basically in many ways the North was oppressing the South. I am glad the North won and we are one country and slavery was ended. But let's not live in a fairytale and pretend the war was about freeing blacks. It simply was not.
It wasn't freeing the slaves, but it certainly was about slavery. The missouri compromise, the stark difference in industry versus agriculture, all led to this. Lincoln's intent was to send slaves back to Africa to start their own country (which they did in what is now called Liberia). So you're right that portraying Lincoln as some great liberator is inaccurate. But your rank and file southerner didn't own a slave, they couldn't afford one. I think the average slave costs around $50k in 2017 dollars, so not something most people could afford. There weren't credit cards or a thriving loan industry in the 1860s.
Ending slavery without a huge economic investment in the South would have been a fiasco. Even train tracks were different sizes between the North and South, limiting how goods could be moved. Had Johnson not started reconstruction following the war, it's very likely the peaceful outcome of the war wouldn't have manifested.
Re: US Politics Thread
You guys do know the Civil War was not about slavery, right? It was about MONEY and then Slavery became a convenient talking point where the importantence grew and grew. The south had the better generals. The North was had more money and soldiers but were lead by a damn drunk. The North also had slaves... basically in many ways the North was oppressing the South. I am glad the North won and we are one country and slavery was ended. But let's not live in a fairytale and pretend the war was about freeing blacks. It simply was not.
The Confederacy was created by slave holders to preserve slavery. They seceded because of Slavery. They used to have white slaves with indentured servitude but quit that because Africans were a better investment and they were terrified of white/black slave revolts. I will say, the US didn't go to war to free the slaves but preserve the union, but the war was about slavery.
You're right in one respect, the planter class kept slaves for money. They also owned all the land, and kept the good land for themselves and charged high rent on poor whites for bad land.
When confederate soldiers were sent off to war, a lot were drafted and didn't want to fight, others were shamed by the church, many left because they were literally fighting for their homes which were being destroyed whether they supported slavery or not (slavery economically devastated poor whites, so no, they were not pro slavery), the planter class who were exempt from fighting in the war promised to take care of the soldiers families, they planted corn for them... And when the soldiers left, the planter class ripped out the corn and planted cotton and let the families starve.
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:You guys do know the Civil War was not about slavery, right? It was about MONEY and then Slavery became a convenient talking point where the importantence grew and grew. The south had the better generals. The North was had more money and soldiers but were lead by a damn drunk. The North also had slaves... basically in many ways the North was oppressing the South. I am glad the North won and we are one country and slavery was ended. But let's not live in a fairytale and pretend the war was about freeing blacks. It simply was not.
It wasn't freeing the slaves, but it certainly was about slavery. The missouri compromise, the stark difference in industry versus agriculture, all led to this. Lincoln's intent was to send slaves back to Africa to start their own country (which they did in what is now called Liberia). So you're right that portraying Lincoln as some great liberator is inaccurate. But your rank and file southerner didn't own a slave, they couldn't afford one. I think the average slave costs around $50k in 2017 dollars, so not something most people could afford. There weren't credit cards or a thriving loan industry in the 1860s.
Ending slavery without a huge economic investment in the South would have been a fiasco. Even train tracks were different sizes between the North and South, limiting how goods could be moved. Had Johnson not started reconstruction following the war, it's very likely the peaceful outcome of the war wouldn't have manifested.
Reconstruction is more responsible for the poor/racial issues of today than anyone knows.
Re: US Politics Thread
Well, people are being insulted on both sides. And I agree, people are actively looking for ways to be angry. But the argument that taking down confederate monuments is erasing history doesn't hold water for me. We pretty much already erased the history of the other side of the coin, or are trying to.
It matters because liberals hate us and want to erase our culture and heritage. Whether people like it or not, if they take the monuments it won't end there and don't pretend it won't. Companies are already trying to get their employees to get rid of their southern accents. People feel pressured to lose our accents so they don't come across as racist or dumb. Believe it or not, there have been complaints about southern accents being offensive. Our architecture will be offensive. Historic sites will be offensive. Reenactments are already under fire. The rebel battle flag, which is NOT the Confederate flag, but a flag that was adopted as a regional symbol, will be banned. We'll continue to be mocked and will be socially acceptable to disparage. And the shit will get worse.
