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Re: US Politics Thread
This Las Vegas thing is fucked. Timelines changing. Conflicting stories, nothing makes sense.
Yeah. I tend to not react to stuff initially because it's usually not pieced together right, but they should have had some idea on high level things like basic timelines fairly quickly. We shouldn't be still wondering on timelines over a week later or finding out that some of the initial reports were flat out wrong. Something isn't right...
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
This is how guys like Alex Jones get a voice. The officials fuck up so much we are left to fill in the holes. If Paddock is the only fucker release the hotel footage. Hallway cams. Lobby cams. Elevator cams. But we get nothing.
One rumor is he was an undercover FBI agent and that he was selling arms to Isis in the US to catch them etc. so he had all the guns etc to sell to them or some shit and they killed him and used the guns on the people the escaped. I don't believe that but we have no evidence it didn't happen either lol.
How are 200 rounds fired in the hallway 6 minutes before turned on the masses and nobody hears shit? More security didn't show up in the 6 mins??? Then after 6 minutes of silence he then shoots the crowd for 11 minutes. 72 minutes after that they enter the room!!!
Re: US Politics Thread
The security guard still hasn't been interviewed has he? That just adds to the skepticism. I see interviews of everyone remotely associated, police, fire, EMTs, kanine, people who drove victims to the hostpital, people who recorded footage with their phone etc. Everyone except this security guard, just bizarre. I don't believe much in a conspiracy, I guess the one SG mentioned, well, sorta a far fetched yet maybe something is there. We'll have to wait upon more info on the shooter plus await security footage. I agree with SG tho, while I don't believe in it, the fact simple 'timelines have changed' and surveillance footage of any kind (him walking into casino) just adds to how the Alex Jones' get a voice.
Going back to Buzzsaws previous long post on the other page, I think the setup of the primaries benefitted Trump (an outsider). Early on, each candidate might have only 10 or 15% of the vote (Jeb, Christe, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich etc), so Trump only needed 16%. Trump pitted himself against the headliners, and Jeb & Rubio etc couldn't outnumber him. Its not so much they felt Trump would make a great President, its that they did not like politicians period. People didn't "love" them, so more people hated or didn't want them. Each was knocked out in succession. Each time, Trump only had a few % points above the next guy, so he knocked them out slowly over time. In a way, Bernie did a similar thing with Hillary, obtaining the votes of people who didn't "love" Hillary, but the long campaign and 1 on 1 battle had a different dynamic, close but no cigar.
As for political bickering, yeah I agree. While its probably always been going on, I'd say it stepped up alot with Republicans under Clinton, not wanting to work with him. But I'd probably say it amplified under W, with Dems opposing the war and refusing to work with his agenda (however, this is AFTER alot of them voted to go in, but I digress). In 06 it became apparent America did not want another endless war, and they took a hard line. Then you had the 06 midterms where they swept up and Donald Rumsfeld resigned the next day. From there, it just seemed this harsh party lines stance among both sides. IMHO at least. I'm sure older people would tell us 'Heck no, its been this way all their lives too' so who knows.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
This is from the same night as the shooting from the Tropicana, the hotel NEXT to the country music concert. WTF is going on here???
Re: US Politics Thread
So here's my take on politics in general. This is probably going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.
Maybe it's because I was young and naive, but when I was a kid, it seemed like the two parties worked together for the most part for the 3 years and only really duked it out in presidential election years. Carter is the first president I actually have a memory of; Reagan I remember much better (to give some perspective on the timeframe). Maybe they didn't really work together, but it seemed like they did to me. They certainly don't anymore. It's us against them on both sides of the aisle.
For this system to work, the balance is important. Most of the people I know are fiscal conservatives and social liberals on some level. Some lean more one direction or the other, but I don't personally know anyone that at least advertises that they are far left or far right. The country won't survive if we push too far in either direction. We can't afford to be too liberal because the math doesn't work. Most liberals even know that being truly liberal isn't possible. Conversely we don't need the conservatives telling everybody what they can and can't do in their bedrooms (for example). We have to be in the middle somewhere, and most people know that. So when we get too far in either direction, the normal process is that it swings back in the other direction. The further we go in one direction, the further we seem to bounce back the other direction. The more in the middle we can stay, I think it's best for all involved.
So how do we get to a place where the gov't works for us again? Is a third party needed to force people to work together to get a majority? Not sure...I know some countries have other parties and it's not always a better situation from the little I follow. I really don't know what the answer is tbh. Most people reside in the middle somewhere, but nobody represents us. That seems impossible, but that's how it is.
I think Trump is a product of a couple things. One is Clinton and Bernie were both bozos and the republican candidates weren't any better. In addition to that, he was a real beacon of change...he's an outsider that won't play by the rules. In some ways that is great, but in others we're getting what we deserve for electing him. I don't understand why people are so scared of him. I completely get not liking him, but people are genuinely scared of him as though he can actually do something. The truth is he really can't do anything on his own, and certainly not something like nuking NK. There's too much fear mongering going on that is directing attention away from reality and making things a circus. Maybe that's appropriate since so many politicians are clowns.
I have other thoughts, but this is either going to start a discussion as I am interested in other's thoughts or it's going to be ignored because it's too long. Where did we lose cooperation? Did we ever have it? Can we get it back? Do we want to get it back or do we feed off of the chaos?
Don't have time to respond in length, but wanted to acknowledge this post and hope to discuss this topic.
I grew up around the same time as you based on your timeline, and I really think it started with the 1992 election of Bill Clinton and then Newt Gingrich responding with the Contract With America in 1994. The Clintons were shady, and the GOP went full-force with the investigations, then crazy rumors sprung up around that. Clinton gets impeached, and it's been downhill ever since. Both sides have fueled it.
Guys like Richard Lugar, John McCain, Joe Biden, Jack Kemp, they all used to reach across the aisle and work on stuff. Those days are gone. The middle is gone.
Re: US Politics Thread
buzzsaw wrote:So here's my take on politics in general. This is probably going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.
Maybe it's because I was young and naive, but when I was a kid, it seemed like the two parties worked together for the most part for the 3 years and only really duked it out in presidential election years. Carter is the first president I actually have a memory of; Reagan I remember much better (to give some perspective on the timeframe). Maybe they didn't really work together, but it seemed like they did to me. They certainly don't anymore. It's us against them on both sides of the aisle.
For this system to work, the balance is important. Most of the people I know are fiscal conservatives and social liberals on some level. Some lean more one direction or the other, but I don't personally know anyone that at least advertises that they are far left or far right. The country won't survive if we push too far in either direction. We can't afford to be too liberal because the math doesn't work. Most liberals even know that being truly liberal isn't possible. Conversely we don't need the conservatives telling everybody what they can and can't do in their bedrooms (for example). We have to be in the middle somewhere, and most people know that. So when we get too far in either direction, the normal process is that it swings back in the other direction. The further we go in one direction, the further we seem to bounce back the other direction. The more in the middle we can stay, I think it's best for all involved.
So how do we get to a place where the gov't works for us again? Is a third party needed to force people to work together to get a majority? Not sure...I know some countries have other parties and it's not always a better situation from the little I follow. I really don't know what the answer is tbh. Most people reside in the middle somewhere, but nobody represents us. That seems impossible, but that's how it is.
I think Trump is a product of a couple things. One is Clinton and Bernie were both bozos and the republican candidates weren't any better. In addition to that, he was a real beacon of change...he's an outsider that won't play by the rules. In some ways that is great, but in others we're getting what we deserve for electing him. I don't understand why people are so scared of him. I completely get not liking him, but people are genuinely scared of him as though he can actually do something. The truth is he really can't do anything on his own, and certainly not something like nuking NK. There's too much fear mongering going on that is directing attention away from reality and making things a circus. Maybe that's appropriate since so many politicians are clowns.
I have other thoughts, but this is either going to start a discussion as I am interested in other's thoughts or it's going to be ignored because it's too long. Where did we lose cooperation? Did we ever have it? Can we get it back? Do we want to get it back or do we feed off of the chaos?
Don't have time to respond in length, but wanted to acknowledge this post and hope to discuss this topic.
I grew up around the same time as you based on your timeline, and I really think it started with the 1992 election of Bill Clinton and then Newt Gingrich responding with the Contract With America in 1994. The Clintons were shady, and the GOP went full-force with the investigations, then crazy rumors sprung up around that. Clinton gets impeached, and it's been downhill ever since. Both sides have fueled it.
Guys like Richard Lugar, John McCain, Joe Biden, Jack Kemp, they all used to reach across the aisle and work on stuff. Those days are gone. The middle is gone.
The election with Perot was the first time I voted and i voted for Ross. Having said that, I was okay with bill for the most part. Obviously not his personal stuff but his policies were fairly middle for the most part. I think I was oblivious to most of the shady stuff at the time other than the women.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I’m not sure why we should care about timelines...we’ve accepted mass shootings in our culture as a virtual every day thing.
Who gives a shit about the details of how it all went down?
Because if there is a coverup or a conspiracy we must get those responsible.
Re: US Politics Thread
Trump's latest:
Challenges Tillerson to an IQ test
Apparently wants to increase our nuclear arsenal 10 fold
Has now threatened NBC over a nuclear weapons report
In feud with Bob Corker
STILL talking shit about the NFL on Twitter
Support from the GOP is starting to crumble. They are starting to see Trump as mentally unstable and dangerous to the world. I hope more join in, so we can get rid of him. The North Korea tough guy talk is really starting to get me nervous.
