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Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
well what do you think it is? cuz i have no fucking clue whats goin' on anymore 
I dunno if i'm reachign a breaking point or what but the album appears to be closer than ever....yet things seem to be unravelling at a very rapid pace at the same time.
Of the '01 CD Vegas lineup BH, Brain, Tobias, Robin areall gone...their entire 3 Guitar Section and their Drummer....the Bass Player is flirting with a Replacements reunion...the 7-8 tracks we;ve heard really dont have much rhyme or reason to them other than being a bunch of different kinds of songs
I'm just having a hard time trying to logically understand what the future holds for Axl's Lone Vision of GnR 
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
I don't think there is a vision.
This is how I see it:
Axl has an incrediable unusal singing voice, is a talented lyricist and composer. Slash has distinguishable and emotive guitar skills. Izzy is a gifted all rounder, and Duff is a talented back line player. Together (with Steven/Matt) they formed an unsually gifted and talented line up.
Axl is also a smart guy. He looked around himself one day and realised that time at the top spotlight is limited, that you're only young once, and that what is easy come can easy go, that he and much of the band had drug issues, them worse than his at the time, and that continued success was dependant on relationships with these people, many of whom looked at the time as if they could sink the ship. Not to mention he had emotional quirks at the time (stephanie etc, and going on late), legal issues (riots) and could be seen as one day going to be removed from the band! So i expect this is what it looked like to a smart guy.
He then did what was necessary to protect his interests. He took steps to ensure control of the name, and legacy. The fact that he wanted this control, along with his emotional problems at the time causing the need for delays etc eventualled caused his relationship with the entire old band to fall appart.
The only master plan then became how to rebuild something that was.
The problem is - the original GNR was an unusally talented mix. He still had his own tallent - but you could spend a life time (as he has done) trying to recapture that kind of lightening in a bottle in relation to the rest of the band.
So he's found session players that are ok to have zero say and take orders (Richard). He's searched the globe for other guitarists that are iconic and amazing in their own right (buckethead), and found people who seem to have a lot of soul to their playing (Robin). And perhaps some of these line-ups have been pretty amazing...and he's been recording what they do...searching forever to regain what had to be sacrificed to ensure GNR's existance. The whole thing has turned into the biggest case of thorwing the baby our with the bathwater ever. To protect his future with GNR he had to destroy it and rebuild it from the start. But that's an incrediably hard thing to do. Even with Axl's talent and resources.
So he doesn't have a master plan or vision. He just does what he's always done. Write grand (and fantastic) songs when they come to him, then seek the imput of the talented musos around him. When he wrote NR he had Slash. When he wrote TWAT he had Robin, it wasn't complete sounding so he passed it on to bucket. And likewise work with those people's riffs and songs. Once it was Izzy bringing him Browstone, now its robbin with Better.
He will go on forever trying to recreate a GNR that's worthyof what he had to destroy. And if he ever gets to a point where he thinks he has done it. Then we'll get to hear an album. Its taken 17 years, millions of dollars and tens of the worlds best musicians. But we may be close from what they're saying.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
He doesn't have a vision, but has an aim he desperataly wants to reach, yet he fails again and again. Axl wants to prove that he is and he was the 'heart and soul' of GN'R. He wants to prove that GN'R was and is Axl Rose. He wants to succeed so badly that always kkep his eye on what's the hip and he wants to do that. Yet he's a genius, he's insecurity and megalomania defeated his great skills. There is no Axl vision as tommy Stinson once stated. He only wants to be very-very successful and afraid of not being a megastar, so he chooses not to do anything at all. Victory or Death became Victory or Nothing.
Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
well what do you think it is? cuz i have no fucking clue whats goin' on anymore
Of the '01 CD Vegas lineup BH, Brain, Tobias, Robin areall gone...their entire 3 Guitar Section and their Drummer....the Bass Player is flirting with a Replacements reunion...the 7-8 tracks we;ve heard really dont have much rhyme or reason to them other than being a bunch of different kinds of songs
I'm just having a hard time trying to logically understand what the future holds for Axl's Lone Vision of GnR
Yeah, the loss of the core unit will impact the record and any potential legacy new GNR might have had. I don't care how cool BBF is, you don't walk into that type of situation and have answers for all the questions. He clearly wasn't a follower of the saga, and actually doesn't even know the names of every GNR track. So he's gonna be the "miracle worker" who helps wrap it up?? Not a chance.
As I mentioned in the other thread, regardless of whether there is some deep concept to the record or not, the whole thing gets diluted through this assembly line of musicians. We had BH, Finck, and Huge working on the record for a 3 years span, Huge takes a seat, Fortus walks in, two years later BH is gone, and then two years after that BBF and Frank are in while Brain is out. This year Finck is gone and possibly Stinson.
No one thinks these almost constant departures had an impact on the various recording sessions?? The songs we listen to are pretty much the 01 lineup, yet changes were made as that lineup started falling apart, and is still falling apart.
IF the record is ever released, I would not be surprised if an 01-02, or even 04 version of the record stomped its ass. Not because I prefer that lineup, but because way too many hands were allowed to be placed in the cookie jar.
When Brain says CD is GNR's "Led Zeppelin II", and you have Bob Ezrin saying there's 3 good songs in the vault, obviously the reality is somewhere in the middle. Years later its being diluted, and a good example is BBF saying he recorded a bunch of different solos for CD so Axl could choose the best one.
Is that really what the album needs at this point?
I dunno if there really was any vision to dilute to be honest.
There had to be a vision, or he would have scrapped the whole thing in 99-00 when he didn't get the exact reaction he was hoping for. He's an artist. Eventually whatever it is he wanted to accomplish with this record(musically speaking anyways)is lost in translation between dead years and band member departures. New blood into the mix helping you tweek on things will eventually create second guesses.
The longer the wait goes on and we continue to get sneak peaks behind the curtain, we see that all this ambition he apparently had and desire to rebuild GNR from scratch into how he pictured it resulted in a merry go round ride back to UYI territory.
He had sole control over GNR since Slash left, and the only thing he has to show for it is music in the same vein of the old band with a few more modern twists added, which the old band could have accomplished in other ways(guest appearances by other musicians,etc.).
At some point in time, he's just gonna say, "what's the fucking point?"
What was relevant to him ten years ago might mean nothing to him right now.
Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
That makes me wonder if since they have some obvious "GNR sounding" material in the bag if the hold up is the challenge of coming up with material that lives up to the rest of that hype.
If that's the hold up, it'll never be released. He has had way too much talent in the band over the years to not come up with something unique and 'not GNR'.
Go listen to the Praxis album Transmutations(Mutadis Mutandis). He had two of those guys in the band for four years. If something incredible didn't come out of those four year sessions, stop trying to improve it and just scrap it.
Having BBF shred like a mother fucker for a few hours so Axl can pick the best clip isn't going to move the record any further. If the foundation supporting Chinese Democracy was so unstable that it required the 06 replacements to add shit to it until early 07, then I am gonna seriously question the quality of this material until all of it has been released and/or leaked.
Re: What exactly is Axl's Vision
yes he has a vision - i think people wanna say he has no master plan which is probably true.
but he has a vision
monkey chow said it well - he has less talent around him.
but my statement would be more like, he has less chemistry around him because more than enough talent has walked through those revolving doors necessary to put out a better than average rock album in less than half the amount of time it has taken so far.
there is the band and then there is axl. and that is why there is no chemistry.
some say these guys aren't in the band but actually axl is not in the band.
the band does their thing and axl is nowhere around, studio and jam space.
he did not start this with original gnr until later in the run and that is when they had the same problems.
kinda like what james said but with my own spin: all of these leaked songs are either great or have the potential to be great but due to the "copy and paste" approach this group has taken due to the revolving door of musicians they are either taking too long to finish or are not getting finished properly. or atleast we are left to asume that is what is happening. to have a diverse and great album with lots of musicians involved the songs would have to be completed before all involved left. my guess is there are several fantastic tunes sitting around neeeding the players on that song to add those minute but extremely important details to it. this can't happen if they are gone.
i disagree that ron not knowing the gnr catalouge make him less qualified, assuming he was hired to be in the band permanently. he is less restrained as an artist if he can hear the new band and open his mind and play along.
axl has chosen the hard and long road but he has a vision and will achieve it.
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