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Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
In light of Bri’s thread, this comment stuck out.
Axl's [Rose, GN'R singer] not gonna go for this.' And [the tour manager] is, like, 'It's John Sykes, man. He learned the songs.
Tommy Stinson and Del James are the bagmen in countless new GNR capers including the bullying of Buckethead (and Bumblefoot), tour delays, hostilities towards fans and much more.
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
1. Axl
2. Beta
3. Del James
4. Bob Ezrin
5. Tommy Stinson
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
Responsible for the album not coming out years earlier (2000-2003)?
1. Label politics
2. Pure shit management
3. Axl
4. TB
5. Band members too scared to give ultimatums
Responsible for the saga in general, including the hiring/auditioning process?
1. TB
2. Axl
3. Pure shit management
4. Label politics
5. Hardcore fans for not walking away....only half kidding.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
Responsible for the album not coming out years earlier (2000-2003)?
1. Label politics
2. Pure shit management
3. Axl
4. TB
5. Band members too scared to give ultimatums
Responsible for the saga in general, including the hiring/auditioning process?
1. TB
2. Axl
3. Pure shit management
4. Label politics
5. Hardcore fans for not walking away....only half kidding.
Spliting hairs here but isn't #2 Pure Shit management on Axl since he hired that person?
Other than that, agree on MisterID, it's all on the redhead. He wanted control of the band, he got it and all the responbility that came with it.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
It can't all be blamed on Axl. If it's all him, the album comes out several times between 2000 and 2002.
This is where the label shoulders a huge chunk of the blame...as well as the rotating cast of shit management incapable of being professional and working with the label to get the album out.
Don't ever forget....it took someone on the level of Azoff to get the album out and he saw the whole thing for what it really was....
Get that beer coaster out of the way for a profit and then get the real band back together.
Azoff had several problems....
- He didn't know how amateurish the whole GNR thing truly was at that point.
- He saw too many moves ahead. He didn't realize he couldn't kill two huge birds with one stone. He also didn't realize a classic reunion lineup wasn't in the cards.
Axl gets mad, doesn't promote the album, then assembles the worst lineup possible for nostalgia tours until finally doing what he should've done a decade earlier.
Without Azoffs intervention, we're still waiting for the album. No one else involved ever had the influence, pull, or capability to get it out of Axl/TB's hands into the labels hands and negotiate a release.
He wanted control of the band, he got it and all the responbility that came with it.
Yeah he got what he wanted and clearly couldn't handle it but for a brief period he did try to get it off the ground.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
1. Label politics
I’m open minded but I don’t agree.
Axl was either far too comfortable playing their game or lacked any sort of courage to take a stand.
Other acts have gotten the short shrift because of new acts coming on the scene. Other acts have gone with legal action to get some of their integrity and rights back. Other acts have called foul over industry practices. Other acts have managed to suck it up and take the hit and keep pressing on.
A contributing factor? Sure.
At the end of the day, he got $14m, countless industry people working on his behalf, etc. etc.
It’s a hard sell for me, barring specifics.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
Had he released CD as a double album, which he seemed to have been determined to do at one point, made up of epics, post-grunge rockers, ballads and insane instrumentals, Chinese Democracy becomes one of the most mythic, bat shit genius album since The Wall.
It's a damn tragedy he lost Bucket for that '06 period. He was cool again, he looked and sounded great, and he could've totally erased that whole '02 fiasco. Dude should have given Bucket all the clout he wanted.
- jimmythegent
- Rep: 30
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
He was on a hiding to nothing and no matter how brilliant the new band or album or albums could have been, there was next to zero appetite for a new incarnation of GN'R. It would be like if Paul McCartney roped in 3 other no-names and claimed it was the Beatles. It wouldn't fly.
1. Calling it Guns N' Roses - he should have called it what it was - a solo album or give the band another name. Chinese Democracy as a band name could've worked. No one wanted a Slash-less GN'R. Fact.
2. As mentioned by many others, completely incompetent management.
3. Axl's mental health. He was clearly in a dark place, mired in lawsuits and in no state to properly move forward. If he had, he would have been more hands on. We were lead to believe he was obsessing constantly over CD for 13 years but if that were the case, how come most of his vocals that ended up on the record were allegedly recorded in 1999? Instead he was tinkering away on riffs and jams recorded in his absence. Hardly an inspired approach that would lead to a band sound.
It also manifested in his weird look - the braids, botox and hockey jersey's - another reason the general public baulked
4. The actual songs. Bob Ezrin was bang-on. Truth be told, he has a few good ones in the CD era and I'm a fan of the album. But it simply is not of the quality of classic GN'R. The hooks, the lyrics, the lyrical solos - all of them were absent. Instead we got a dated sounding avant-garde rock album that resembled nothing of the sound and ethos of the original band. There are far too many plodding and of course overproduced turkeys. You can hardly hear Tommy Stinson's bass under the layers of dense guitars and synths. Brains drumming is completely un-inspired and we know he is an amazing drummer. Instead it sounds like a sampled drum machine for the most part. I couldn't tell you what Richard Fortus is contributing on any song. The less said about Bumblefoot, the better. Criminal what he did to Cather in the Rye.
5. The bands live performances. I saw them live in 2007 and it didn't even sound like GN'R and it certainly didn't look like them. Night and day with 2017. They should have stuck to their own music and left the classics alone which leads me back to point 1 - they should have called themselves something else or it should have been an Axl solo album which is what I consider it be.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
1. Calling it Guns N' Roses - he should have called it what it was - a solo album or give the band another name. Chinese Democracy as a band name could've worked. No one wanted a Slash-less GN'R. Fact.
This probably doesn't get mentioned enough anymore, but yeah its a pretty solid point. Especially once BH left, things fell apart. Even the 02 tour collapse, should've ditched GnR at that point, bc 'supergroups' were becoming a thing (VR, Audioslave etc). Calling it Chinese Democracy or something probably would've been the thing to do. Really would've been best from the 90s OMG years.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
In light of Bri’s thread, this comment stuck out.
bigbri wrote:Axl's [Rose, GN'R singer] not gonna go for this.' And [the tour manager] is, like, 'It's John Sykes, man. He learned the songs.
Tommy Stinson and Del James are the bagmen in countless new GNR capers including the bullying of Buckethead (and Bumblefoot), tour delays, hostilities towards fans and much more.
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
1. Axl
2. Beta
3. Del James
4. Bob Ezrin
5. Tommy Stinson
I'm unaware of the bullying. I thought BH left because of the inactivity.
