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- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Current Events Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:Manchin just came out against the new Voting Rights Act and affirmed he won’t allow his party to remove the filibuster. This man may be the bravest Senator in the Senate. And is a true patriot
It truly is brave to allow voter suppression tactics ramped up another level across the country on the state level and do nothing about it.
In 2021 in the US, any legal resident can vote if they want to vote. Were you able to vote in the last election?
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
In 2016, we saw one of the two major political parties get hacked. We also saw public facing election sites (with no actual information connected to vote records, but public voter information) get hacked. 2021 has had a major gas line and our meat industry hit by Russian hackers. With all due respect, I don't trust people who think the internet is a series of pipes to safeguard our infrastructure and election systems. With this realization, which party is fighting to protect our integrity and which is working to make it even easier to have no oversight and qualified confidence the systems are working as intended? The new bill outlaws voter ID. We're the only western country that doesn't require it, and one party wants to codify into federal law that you can't validate who someone is when they vote? Meanwhile this same party wants a 30 day waiting period, vigorous background check and a $200+ tax stamp to exercise another right.
Re: Current Events Thread
You want to make voting easier? Have more places to do it. Have more places that make getting the ID and all other requirements easier.
I refuse to believe Republicans give a shit about the integrity of elections. They care about winning. Period.
You want to make voting easier? Make it a national holiday and still require all your meaningless identification crap.
More access to all the services required to obtain IDs, DNA tests, proof of employment, proof that you own property...etc...of course ther won’t happen. Meanwhile all the opposite is occurring. So don’t tell me this is about election integrity.
What i will not do is entertain the notion that the centuries long effort to minimize the people doesn’t exist. Decreasing the people who can vote is not impressive to me. American Democracy is great if you can afford to participate.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:We're the only western country that doesn't require it
This is incorrect. Quickly googling "Voter Id Laws' would tell you this.
If you want to be pendantic, sure, but none allow someone to register with a cable bill. And all require a state ID to register, and nearly all require that State ID to be present when voting. Would you please list those nations, cause the quick google and wikipedia search I did before posting my original statement just confirmed what I said above. The only exception being Australia, where voting is compulsory, which requires a State ID the first time someone registers to vote. Only 14 states in the US require ID, and those laws are being contested in court as we speak.
Point being the standard for identification in the US is vastly lower than any western nation, and only in the US can you vote in some states without an ID, which is not the case in any Western nations. But please let me know where I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear your discussion on the topic and not trying to snipe me.
Re: Current Events Thread
What does that prove though? That conservatives around the world found a way to suppress voting?
Mail in voting has been a thing for a long time.
Either way...I'm not convince of anything just because other countries have some form of voter ID. Lots of those countries make obtaining these IDs much easier than this country does. Also, most of those countries have better voter turn out than us.
Also...I'm still waiting for significant evidence of a problem that needs to be solved.
So...'other countries do it too' really doesn't hold much water.
Re: Current Events Thread
Manchin just came out against the new Voting Rights Act and affirmed he won’t allow his party to remove the filibuster. This man may be the bravest Senator in the Senate. And is a true patriot
I’ll add one more on top of it....thanks to the filibuster these people get to whack off all over again every time 90% of them get re-elected...
I’ll say it again...the most feckless body of government ever created.
Re: Current Events Thread
Axl S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:We're the only western country that doesn't require it
This is incorrect. Quickly googling "Voter Id Laws' would tell you this.
If you want to be pendantic, sure, but none allow someone to register with a cable bill. And all require a state ID to register, and nearly all require that State ID to be present when voting. Would you please list those nations, cause the quick google and wikipedia search I did before posting my original statement just confirmed what I said above. The only exception being Australia, where voting is compulsory, which requires a State ID the first time someone registers to vote. Only 14 states in the US require ID, and those laws are being contested in court as we speak.
Point being the standard for identification in the US is vastly lower than any western nation, and only in the US can you vote in some states without an ID, which is not the case in any Western nations. But please let me know where I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear your discussion on the topic and not trying to snipe me.
I mean I live in a country (the UK) that doesn't. You need a valid NI number when registering (equivalent of SSN) on the electoral roll but when you turn up at the polls you just state your name and address. Just saying it isn't all Western countries like you stated.
I have no problem with ID at the polls in countries where folk are issued/have access to National ID cards for free. I think where none of that is provided and you rely on passports or driver's licenses, then you run into issues. Typically applying or renewing one of these things costs money and whilst it may not be a huge amount for you or I, for others it could be and is therefore a barrier to voting.
I think instead of fixating on just one aspect of this, there should be a wholesale review of the process of voting in the US and afterwards there should be widepspread reform. Things like gerrymandering and leaving people in situations where their nearest polling station is multiple hours drive away seem like big issues too. Dealing with one issue in isolation probably fixes one problem and creates new ones, got to tackle the whole piece.
Anyway, my point was 1) Other countries do mail in voting fine, without ID checks. 2) Other countries do in person voting fine without ID checks at the polls. It can be done. If I were a US citizen I wouldn't get hung up on these two issues. It's my understanding that incidents of voter fraud are relatively low and in small enough numbers when it does occur that they aren't swinging elections - happy to be proven wrong on this though.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Current Events Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:Axl S wrote:This is incorrect. Quickly googling "Voter Id Laws' would tell you this.
If you want to be pendantic, sure, but none allow someone to register with a cable bill. And all require a state ID to register, and nearly all require that State ID to be present when voting. Would you please list those nations, cause the quick google and wikipedia search I did before posting my original statement just confirmed what I said above. The only exception being Australia, where voting is compulsory, which requires a State ID the first time someone registers to vote. Only 14 states in the US require ID, and those laws are being contested in court as we speak.
Point being the standard for identification in the US is vastly lower than any western nation, and only in the US can you vote in some states without an ID, which is not the case in any Western nations. But please let me know where I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear your discussion on the topic and not trying to snipe me.
I mean I live in a country (the UK) that doesn't. You need a valid NI number when registering (equivalent of SSN) on the electoral roll but when you turn up at the polls you just state your name and address. Just saying it isn't all Western countries like you stated.
I have no problem with ID at the polls in countries where folk are issued/have access to National ID cards for free. I think where none of that is provided and you rely on passports or driver's licenses, then you run into issues. Typically applying or renewing one of these things costs money and whilst it may not be a huge amount for you or I, for others it could be and is therefore a barrier to voting.
I think instead of fixating on just one aspect of this, there should be a wholesale review of the process of voting in the US and afterwards there should be widepspread reform. Things like gerrymandering and leaving people in situations where their nearest polling station is multiple hours drive away seem like big issues too. Dealing with one issue in isolation probably fixes one problem and creates new ones, got to tackle the whole piece.
Anyway, my point was 1) Other countries do mail in voting fine, without ID checks. 2) Other countries do in person voting fine without ID checks at the polls. It can be done. If I were a US citizen I wouldn't get hung up on these two issues. It's my understanding that incidents of voter fraud are relatively low and in small enough numbers when it does occur that they aren't swinging elections - happy to be proven wrong on this though.
If you are incapable of getting an ID you probably should not be voting. Every US citizen has a right to vote, but I don’t want every uninformed idiot to vote. If you don’t have an ID that is on you.
Re: Current Events Thread
Axl S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:If you want to be pendantic, sure, but none allow someone to register with a cable bill. And all require a state ID to register, and nearly all require that State ID to be present when voting. Would you please list those nations, cause the quick google and wikipedia search I did before posting my original statement just confirmed what I said above. The only exception being Australia, where voting is compulsory, which requires a State ID the first time someone registers to vote. Only 14 states in the US require ID, and those laws are being contested in court as we speak.
Point being the standard for identification in the US is vastly lower than any western nation, and only in the US can you vote in some states without an ID, which is not the case in any Western nations. But please let me know where I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear your discussion on the topic and not trying to snipe me.
I mean I live in a country (the UK) that doesn't. You need a valid NI number when registering (equivalent of SSN) on the electoral roll but when you turn up at the polls you just state your name and address. Just saying it isn't all Western countries like you stated.
I have no problem with ID at the polls in countries where folk are issued/have access to National ID cards for free. I think where none of that is provided and you rely on passports or driver's licenses, then you run into issues. Typically applying or renewing one of these things costs money and whilst it may not be a huge amount for you or I, for others it could be and is therefore a barrier to voting.
I think instead of fixating on just one aspect of this, there should be a wholesale review of the process of voting in the US and afterwards there should be widepspread reform. Things like gerrymandering and leaving people in situations where their nearest polling station is multiple hours drive away seem like big issues too. Dealing with one issue in isolation probably fixes one problem and creates new ones, got to tackle the whole piece.
Anyway, my point was 1) Other countries do mail in voting fine, without ID checks. 2) Other countries do in person voting fine without ID checks at the polls. It can be done. If I were a US citizen I wouldn't get hung up on these two issues. It's my understanding that incidents of voter fraud are relatively low and in small enough numbers when it does occur that they aren't swinging elections - happy to be proven wrong on this though.
If you are incapable of getting an ID you probably should not be voting. Every US citizen has a right to vote, but I don’t want every uninformed idiot to vote. If you don’t have an ID that is on you.
So you do admit this is about weeding people out line a poll tax would.
