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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Current Events Thread
yeah I mean through the eyes of current values there's consent issues anyway unless every person is fully sober, but it's unquestionably worse if he is drugging the people unwillingly too.
Re: Current Events Thread
misterID wrote:He was knocking them out.
I think you missed the point. He's saying Motley Crue was notorious for something similar.
He's accused by about 60 women that he drugged their drinks without them knowing, then had sex with them while they were unconscious. For some time there was a belief that if she didn't say "no" then it wasn't rape, even if she wasn't given the opportunity to say no. This isn't giving girls cocaine at a party.
I don't know how you can be outraged about Cosby's rights being trampled, when he was doing the same thing. A woman has the right to say no, and he took that away from them. Except he wasn't getting rammed by a dick while he was unconscious.
This isn't sleeping with someone you wished you hadn't because you were drunk or stoned, but someone deliberately drugging you to have sex with you because you turned them down.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
mitchejw wrote:misterID wrote:He was knocking them out.
I think you missed the point. He's saying Motley Crue was notorious for something similar.
He's accused by about 60 women that he drugged their drinks without them knowing, then had sex with them while they were unconscious. For some time there was a belief that if she didn't say "no" then it wasn't rape, even if she wasn't given the opportunity to say no. This isn't giving girls cocaine at a party.
I don't know how you can be outraged about Cosby's rights being trampled, when he was doing the same thing. A woman has the right to say no, and he took that away from them. Except he wasn't getting rammed by a dick while he was unconscious.
This isn't sleeping with someone you wished you hadn't because you were drunk or stoned, but someone deliberately drugging you to have sex with you because you turned them down.
Admittedly I don't recall all of the known testimony Cosby gave, and if he was knocking women out, that is rape plain and simple. All I know about ludes is what I saw on Wolf of Wall Street. I smoke weed daily, but the hardest drug I've done in my life is shrooms, so please ignore my naivete. But didn't the woman who he was ultimately convicted of raping have a consensual sexual relationship with Cosby years after the alleged rape? I've never been able to reconcile that, save battered women whom are married and live with their abusive spouse. If someone knocked me out and raped me, there is no friendship afterwards. There isn't consensual sex for years after. I'd either murder them in cold blood before offing myself or do the right thing and go to the authorities. As far as I know, Cosby only admitted to getting ludes, not using an amount intentionally to make a woman unconscious. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it certainly wasn't proven in his trial. Cosby admitted he used ludes, but he never stated it wasn't consensual, and again Wolf of Wall Street, one pill doesn't seem enough to make someone catatonic.
If he rendered women unconscious so he can have sex against their consent, that's rape. Giving someone a medication to take the edge off and make them more loose isn't rape. I have no idea what occurred here, but again, someone who is raped probably shouldn't have consensual sex for years after.
Re: Current Events Thread
If someone knocked me out and raped me, there is no friendship afterwards.
Duly noted.
If he rendered women unconscious so he can have sex against their consent, that's rape. Giving someone a medication to take the edge off and make them more loose isn't rape.
Yeah this is where I'm going too, somewhat, or just unclear about. Ludes was before our time, (late 70s?) but I think it was a common party drug, something people took & tried to get their hands on like exctasy. I think Wolf Of Wall Street exagerrated it's effects alot, it's not one pill & you're paralyzed. Didn't he say he took like 20 or 50 of them.
Although, giving a girl a strong dose & amount of Molly etc and she's knocked out, then yeah it's rape. But, imagine a guy going to a rave with his gf. Then, 5-10 years later, 'He drugged me & raped me'. It becomes a fine line.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:If someone knocked me out and raped me, there is no friendship afterwards.
Duly noted.
Do you disagree that to 99.9% of people, being raped results in anger and rage? How many people that are raped continue to have consensual sex years after the rape with the rapist? That's my struggle with this. I oversaw quite a few sexual assault cases in the military, and in my observation, the willingness of the raped to be friendly with the rapists was the number one indicator of how factual the allegations are. I'm not saying people don't respond differently or demonstrate their trauma differently. Just that continuing to have sex with someone who raped you isn't something that I find a plausible scenario.
Re: Current Events Thread
PaSnow wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:If someone knocked me out and raped me, there is no friendship afterwards.
Duly noted.
Do you disagree that to 99.9% of people, being raped results in anger and rage? How many people that are raped continue to have consensual sex years after the rape with the rapist? That's my struggle with this. I oversaw quite a few sexual assault cases in the military, and in my observation, the willingness of the raped to be friendly with the rapists was the number one indicator of how factual the allegations are. I'm not saying people don't respond differently or demonstrate their trauma differently. Just that continuing to have sex with someone who raped you isn't something that I find a plausible scenario.
I meant it facetiously, as in 'I'll make sure not to rape you Randall' 
Re: Current Events Thread
There's a huge difference between snorting cocaine, Oxy, etc. with a woman...then having sex....and placing ludes, soma, xanax, etc. into a girls drink and screwing her after she passes out.
They're not even in the same ballpark.
Having said that....
There's definitely a fine line between the two... especially when it comes to partying with pills/downers. Even if the woman wants to party, does she still want it when she's on the floor or bed passed out? She wanted it five minutes ago.
IMO....any woman who uses drugs and finds herself in a situation with one or several guys and drugs are about to get consumed, she better just expect for some form of sexual activity to take place.
Don't want it?
Don't place yourself in that situation.
This may sound like victim blaming but I don't give a fuck. You have to be responsible for the situations you place yourself in. If you take drugs with some guy at a club and he invites you back to his house, he's not bringing you there to cook Hungarian goulash. If you're not smart enough to realize that, you're not smart enough to take care of yourself.
To answer the question regarding why Cosby's rape victims come back for seconds and thirds....
He's Bill Cosby. Celebrities have insane levels of clout due to their fame and bank account.
If I had Cosby's fame and money, I could walk into a random bar, go up to ten random women, pull their panties down and sodomize them....at least half are coming back for more.
Hell...parents let their children spend the night with Michael Jackson for fucks sake. Would they do that with a random guy?
No.
I'm actually amazed Cosby never accidentally killed someone. Your luck would eventually run out and she would OD.
I'll never forget this story from years ago.
A guy sold Molly to a bunch of teens and college students. There was this one beautiful girl he wanted to fuck really bad.
The next time she came over he offered her a soda. He had spiked it with a mega dose of Molly. He had no idea(or didn't care) that she had already taken some. As she's overdosing and passing out, he takes her clothes off and rapes her.
She falls into a coma and dies.
misterID wrote:mitchejw wrote:I have no idea if he’s guilty or not…how can you be so sure?
I’m so confused about whether or not people find this shit to repulsive or even criminal at all. It hits close to home for me and I’ve resigned myself to the fact that many people just don’t care.
Because he admitted it. That's the whole point, he testified in a civil case, and it was used in his criminal case against him.
Wouldn't you agree to admitting to anything to stay out of jail?
No.
That approach can just cause you to fall into an even deeper hole.... assuming you're not a celebrity or politician.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Current Events Thread
I find that sometimes when people's behaviour is really contradictory too it can take a moment to sort of fully process exactly what they just did.
You sort of assume it was somehow your fault, or like sometimes I'll attempt to forgive the person like it's not so big a deal, then you get progressively angrier over time as you realise what a violation it really was.
I could imagine that happening with a cosby victim too. Like he seemed charming and is very funny in person. Everyone else loves him. He has a reputation as a clean cut champion of family entertainment. That's in direct opposition to how he seemed to drug your drink. Now he's acting like you're still friends and not mentioning the rape at all, acting like it didn't happen. It's the kinda thing that makes you temporarily question what happened - did you say something that made that happen? Did you drink more than you should? How sure are you that there were drugs? Maybe it was an accident etc?
I had a situation once where I had been single for a long time and unhappy about it. I finally meet a new girl and things are great. Few months in a bring her to hang out with one of my best mates (who had his own girlfriend). Throughout the course of the night this guy brings up in conversation how much in love I had been with an ex-girlfriend. He tells my current girlfriend all about how I had said I would never love anyone else. He basically tries to wind her up and split us up. Then he goes back to normal hangs with us. Makes plans to see me again. Hangs out with me again like it's no big deal. I bring it up and he just says "oh did I say that? Probably just chatting" and plays it down when he had gone on in detail to her about every one of my faults for like an hour lol.
Was kinda hard for me to process...cos like trying to bust up my relationship apparently just for fun and for no reason is not the actions of a friend, yet this guy has been friends with me for years, and he's not acting like he wants to end the friendship verbally. Just like it's going to a new normal part of our friendship to fuck me over now. But not even admit he's fucking me over.
So like this kinda made me mad over time. I forgave him on the spot for the dumb comments at first cos I was just kinda shocked and figured he fucked up some how, but then it started to eat at me ....like why did he do that? What else will he do? Did I cause it? etc.
So like...while in principle I agree with Randell in the idea of like "why would you keep hanging out with a dude who raped you" I can also see how sometimes when people are very nice to you generally but then randomly do something completely assholish and seemingly out of character that it can take a little bit to process what the hell happened.
Re: Current Events Thread
I find that sometimes when people's behaviour is really contradictory too it can take a moment to sort of fully process exactly what they just did.
You sort of assume it was somehow your fault, or like sometimes I'll attempt to forgive the person like it's not so big a deal, then you get progressively angrier over time as you realise what a violation it really was.
I could imagine that happening with a cosby victim too. Like he seemed charming and is very funny in person. Everyone else loves him. He has a reputation as a clean cut champion of family entertainment. That's in direct opposition to how he seemed to drug your drink. Now he's acting like you're still friends and not mentioning the rape at all, acting like it didn't happen. It's the kinda thing that makes you temporarily question what happened - did you say something that made that happen? Did you drink more than you should? How sure are you that there were drugs? Maybe it was an accident etc?
I had a situation once where I had been single for a long time and unhappy about it. I finally meet a new girl and things are great. Few months in a bring her to hang out with one of my best mates (who had his own girlfriend). Throughout the course of the night this guy brings up in conversation how much in love I had been with an ex-girlfriend. He tells my current girlfriend all about how I had said I would never love anyone else. He basically tries to wind her up and split us up. Then he goes back to normal hangs with us. Makes plans to see me again. Hangs out with me again like it's no big deal. I bring it up and he just says "oh did I say that? Probably just chatting" and plays it down when he had gone on in detail to her about every one of my faults for like an hour lol.
Was kinda hard for me to process...cos like trying to bust up my relationship apparently just for fun and for no reason is not the actions of a friend, yet this guy has been friends with me for years, and he's not acting like he wants to end the friendship verbally. Just like it's going to a new normal part of our friendship to fuck me over now. But not even admit he's fucking me over.
So like this kinda made me mad over time. I forgave him on the spot for the dumb comments at first cos I was just kinda shocked and figured he fucked up some how, but then it started to eat at me ....like why did he do that? What else will he do? Did I cause it? etc.
So like...while in principle I agree with Randell in the idea of like "why would you keep hanging out with a dude who raped you" I can also see how sometimes when people are very nice to you generally but then randomly do something completely assholish and seemingly out of character that it can take a little bit to process what the hell happened.
So it sounds like you agree that women in general don’t take enough accountability.
I’d be inclined to agree.
We hear about this shit happening all the time. Why are so few held accountable if it’s against the law? Why are some people’s lives destroyed for committing these acts while others become present.
This isn’t very liberal of me to say…but sometimes i get tired of paying the price for what other rich men do.
I supervise female employees and I’m surrounded by them all the time. It gets exhausting always being so careful with the words i select and i am very conscious of what i could potentially get in trouble for. I had a young, fresh college grad show up to work in a crop top and daisy duke shorts about a month into employment. Imagine being a man almost twice her age having to give her feedback on that…and why should i have to? This should be common sense. Often times these situations are motivated by the chance to provoke.
An entire generation of women who have been emboldened by petty causes like ‘free the nipple’ and absolutely no accountability for their own behavior. So emboldened that they may potentially use these rules to entrap a man.
Its hard for me to understand the bill Cosby situation.
