Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Intercourse

Fellow Gunners,
I was struck by Baz's reference to Axl calling him to enquire about his possible addition to the VR line up. As James has always rightly pointed out, Axl's obsession with Slash and the old crew may have driven him to spending 10 or more years trying to prove he can top anything musically he had created with their help but at the same time it has totally paralysed him and at this moment, has destroyed his legacy and maybe even his career.

He's like an obsessed ex, he doesn't want the old crew back but at the same time he cannot let anyone he deals with get involved with them either. Izzy is about the only one who seems to be able to commute between the two sides without getting hassled by Axl.

Axl '˜s deep involvement with therapies from all ends of the spectrum (medical to spiritual to downright off the wall) are well documented and spoken to by him at great lengths in the ninties. The titles of some of the songs rumoured to be on this flying saucer of an album CD indicate he's been reading lots material and possibly travelling extensively in what appears to be an earnest attempt to better understand himself and the world around him (check the web for references to Atlas Shrugged , Chinese Democracy, Cather in the Rye etc).

So with all this soul searching and therapy, I wonder has anyone who has worked on this guy for the last decade and a half pointed out to him that he needs to sit down with the old crew and make some sort of peace? It's the only way he can move forward. Are even his shrinks yes men too?

I despair at the carry on over at HTGTH; NOTHING that may cause a ripple in Axl's mood is allowed to remain. What good is it to anybody to be indulged to that level? It keeps Axl stuck in his narcissistic hole. Does Jarmo etc not realise they are actually enabling their idol's downward slide?

Axl needs to realise that he had a major part to play in where he finds himself today, stop blaming and trying to control everybody around him and man the fuck up. I think Slash has acknowledged his role in the death of the original GNR and has publically said so. Both he, Duff, Matt and Izzy have all dealt with their demons are all sober and working hard. Axl seems like the last one to get his big issue sorted out, get off the much mocked '˜rock star trip' he's stayed on for the last decade and get fucking real.

I am just amazed that with all the money etc that record companies made from these guys that nobody on this planet could ever be found in over 15 years that could pull these guys into a room, kick their asses and show them what their years of feuding have robbed them of.

So does therapy work? If so, what has all of this therapy gotten Axl??

monkeychow

I think his therapy has kept him alive.

Yes..it hasn't made him perfect, and sadly doesn't seem to have helped in terms of getting the band back together, or even progressing too far with the new band. However...think about what it had to deal with.

Axl has a troubled past. He's talked of abuse and violence and other such issues.

Look at him in 1987 - who thought anyone in the old band would still be alive in 2008. If he didn't kill himself with the drug lifestyle of his friends, I'd have expected him to go too far in some fight and wind up with a manslaughter charge...or of course...kill himself on the alter of rock and roll. (to paraphrase something I remember himsaying in some interview long back). I mean you read the lyrics to estranged and some other songs and you realise Axl, pro and faults, feels real emotional pain at times.

I think the thearpy has given him the life skills that some of us with easier childhoods and different minds and emotions take for granted. The ability to stay off drugs. To minimise violence and destruction to properly. (appart from the odd security guard bite) (but look at with tommy hilfeger. If that had happened in 1990 they would have had to drag axl out of the club kicking and smashing stuff) and to not kill himself over the issues with the band, and his love relationships.

the_real_jessica

Wow, what a question : does therapy work ?

It depends on individuals.

I could only reply to you talking for my own self and the answer would be : i spent half of my life in therapy and no, it did not help me, because i have understood a lot, but it didn't take away the pain and nothing does.

One thing it does though is expand your mind through conscious and unconscious thinking.

So it's probably made Axl richer in human and humanitarian terms.( plus what monkey said)

I think the ONLY therapy, and i've thought this for years now, that achieves anything or almost everything, is LOVE.

Once Axl is finally in love, with the one person who makes him feel what any of us are entitled to feel like ( even more so the resilients), then, a lot can fall into place, professionally too.

But there are chances he only concentrates on his personal life, after waiting so long to feel alive.

Sky Dog

I am not sure the therapy worked because he still does the same things he did before. ....more like a bunch of leeches sucking his bank account dry. However, I don't think anyone on this board has any idea about what Axl is obsessed with, what his mental state is, and what his thoughts are on the old band as things stand today. I don't think many people close to Axl know him that well either. sad He is a very guarded individual. We try to analyze the hell of the few words he says.....but that sure as shit isn't knowing someone on an intimate level.

Seven

Madagas and I discussed this at length on the old site. Obvious references to disassociations with the mirror scenes splits in UYI era (typical to sexual trauma childhood victims). Much conspiracy theory reading and research in the camp (a la Manson et al,. ) People around Where Dizzy lived heavily involved in Area 51 research don't know if it extended to Ax. If you grow up in Chaos you just keep recreating it till you learn skills to stop. Deeply impeded afflictions and serendipity are always created/present to feed the Damion of childhood trauma. We are not talking "save the inner child" when these beast rise from the deep reaches of the collective. Nor are the self protection mechanisms (yes men and caretakers) that grow firmly into the Garden easily weeded. Awareness of a condition is not the same as actively working to correct what has been recognized it is a constant battle, some elements that have money at stake could bring other elements with other agendas. you are talking about "lots of money yeah just lots of money", you can attract some really bad stuff in this situation I imagine much of which is not easily disposed of or imagined much less controllable...therapy of this sort off site, Jungian several days a week, no family present... in a couple of years you might see results. always worry some about Ax's silence who knows what goes on behind closed doors. As well Jessica Love is grand "but people package all kind of loves and it's a joke thats not so funny" you can never really know anyones heart at least thats what Jesus said the cynic in me has no trouble believing that. Sorry to be rambling but running out the door, got to meet the new drummer.....

Neemo

what has he gone to therapy for? we need to know that before we know if it worked or not.

and like madagas said we need to know him before we know if he even has any issues

anyway if you look at late 80's he was very angry and strung out...look at early 90s and he was alot more relaxed but could still fly off the handle and frequently had rants on various topics...look in 2002 and 2006 very few rants, would go and do shows with very little talking between songs and maybe a handful of rants during all the shows since 2000

i think that he has found some inner peace, he has calmed down at any rate, he seems healthy and seems over his selfdestructive self....

so anyway i would say that, based on what we know, axl's therapy has worked

I dont think you can get therapy for being eccentric

Seven

I think it is safe to speculate much of what he has going on has to do with his childhood traumas as to specifically what he is/did/could utilize therapy for your right it would be impossible to know.

PaSnow

I think something that has gone somewhat undermentioned alot recently in regards to the delays & inactivity is the death of his mother. IIRC she died in 1996. Right around the time a GnR album would be expecting to begin, or released. It's been noted his childhood was one in an abusive household due to his stepdad, and I would guess his mother was some sort of safety net for him. On some level, as badass and dangerous as he became, I think deep down he always had a love for her, and possibly was proud to have made something of himself for her.

Now, without her,he doesn't feel any safety net to look to anymore, because she has passed away. It could be why he has had woman issues, and (supposedly) misses Stephanie Seymour so much. She was everything, his ideal woman (mother) and she left/rejected him.

Just a thought?!

the_real_jessica

I think a bigger love will make him forget stephanie and she may even seem pointless to him once he discovers love instead of obsession ( no offense, but he did seem obsessed with her)

sic.

PASnow is accurately referring to the Peter Wilkinson/Rolling Stone article from 2000, which is a rather poignant text on Axl's emotional turmoil.

Axl was distracted by events tragic, potentially tragic and strange. His mother, Sharon Bailey, died in May 1996 at the age of fifty-one. Wildfires nipped at the edges of Axl's Latigo Canyon property the same year. The following May, Axl's old friend and songwriting partner West Arkeen died from a drug overdose at the age of thirty-six. A frequent visitor to the studio says. "When Stephanie Seymour's birthday came around. Axl seemed to shut down for weeks. A lot of this record is about Stephanie: She was his perfect woman, at least his imÂage of what she should be." - RS, 2000

And while no-one here knows Axl Rose personally (or as far as I'm aware of), no-one can give a right-minded opinion on how the treatment has affected him as a person over the years. We can only speculate through the public image(s) he has presented himself in.

Much of what's been going down in Axl's head (as already mentioned) boils down to the abusive stepfather and a childhood environment of fear. I figure he lacked much of the safety children need during their formative years. He grew up hating the old Bailey, and only in his teens learned that his real father was in fact the estranged troublemaker called Rose. I suppose it might've fueled a lot of anger within him, to realize all the fear and suffering of his boyhood was basically coincidental; his mother just came up with the wrong surrogate father. Not that his real father would've necessarily been any better, I remember reading a court document about his death, which was basically a manslaughter. William Rose was no choirboy, I can assure you. However, Axl went into lengths in assuming his place as a junior Rose. He adopted the family name, switched Bill to W., and to stress his own identity, assumed the moniker of Axl. Hence, William Axl Rose, son of William Rose. Not Bill Bailey.

Axl was a real hellion in his teenage years, and no doubt the rebellious nature directed towards any authority that chose to stand in his way (or sometimes just rebellion for its own sake) was an attempt to show off to his stepfather and others who'd wronged him. I believe it was Izzy who said something to the effect that once Axl started getting laid he became impossible. Axl just happened storm into the right place at the right time, meeting with all the right people and doing all the right things. He'd come back to Indiana from LA around 20 times during his first year out, but once he got his foot crammed through the door, there was just no stopping.

When he finally made it with the merger of LA Guns and Hollywood Rose, he got a lot of old friends from the Indiana days to LA, to share the riveting club scene where GNR was quickly turning into a main attraction, banging out 'It's So Easy' and meaning every word of it. Axl was finally getting some respect, a neighborhood kid had made it! Not only that, but people in high places seemed to agree to those sentiments. Geffen A&R Tom Zutaut blatantly lied to just about every other colleague in town about GNR being horrible, and signed them up in a quick sweep. AFD happened on a wave of euphoria, SCOM came out of a lickin' guitar riff Slash'd come up with. Everything was nice and Axl was living the rock n' roll version of the American Dream.

It's really the success that got under his skin. When the UYI's were scheduled for production, Axl was one home-run away from major league stardom. He must've felt infallible. He'd felt he'd gotten as far as he did for simply being who he was: Axl, the proud bastard son of W. Rose. He thought he could handle the business end better than Alan Niven, whose closing note as the GNR manager was to negotiate a lucrative new recording deal before the release of the UYI's. Band members were slowly turning from allies into nuisances; Steven's drug problems and possible encounter with Erin Everly did little to help his situation. What remains the truth in the case of Adler is debatable, however, Axl felt he'd put up a lot for Steven in order to secure his future without GNR, and thus felt seriously betrayed.

The ailing marriage with Erin didn't really help things out, as Axl was pouring the increasing pressures of the music world onto her in various physical and psychological ways. He was more interested in securing Erin than committing into matrimony; there's a well-publicized story of Axl's idea of proposal, he threatened to kill himself unless Erin said yes. Dan McCafferty maintains he was asked multiple times to perform 'Love Hurts' at the wedding. To make matters worse, Erin eventually had a miscarriage. Having adopted regression therapy, Axl used to later tell her they were a Native American couple in their past lives and Erin had slain their children; hence Axl's uncontrolled outbursts towards her. As Tom Zutaut's story ('the truth of Erin') indicates, Axl would harbor many strong feelings towards Erin in the years to come, despite their acrimonious split. He'd attempt to mend bridges with her even when becoming involved with Stephanie Seymour. The mother of his unborn child had a lot of names for herself in Axl's head.

The UYI's saw Axl literally camp in the recording studio for weeks on end, trying to finish his trademark vocals on top of what were practically finished instrumental tracks. Already then he seemingly began to feel the world was just a bit cold to his liking and felt the seclusion of the studio provided a much needed sanctuary from the outer turmoils. Again, he was Axl, and there was nobody there to tell him any different. Of course, the UYI's became the success story and Axl started to hang out with Stephanie. She already had a son, to which Axl responded strongly, having always wanted a son of his own and no doubt seeing a glimpse of what could've been with Erin in him. Dylan was perhaps two years old when he came about Uncle Axl, Axl's child would've been a year or so. Of course, Stephanie wasn't the easiest girl in town to be convinced a housewife. Axl just had the world against him. Geffen wanted the UYI's out, and while Axl was out touring, Stephanie was having dinner with the likes of Warren Beatty. Axl wasn't exactly the living essence of monogamy himself, but he no doubt felt the forces of evil were once again allying against him. The slow dissolution of the band and best friend Izzy leaving in the worst possible hour made everything all the more harder.

Axl rebelled, once again. He showed up late on stage, held excessive banquets, did everything he could to live up the halcyon days. Anything to shelter himself from a spiritual vacuum, the realization that while he could conquer stadiums, he couldn't oftentimes conquer his own emotions. 'They' said he was bi-polar, fair enough, he made bi-polarity a trademark of his. It's all in the rock star persona: Nothing is real, everything is permitted. It's no surprise he was likely very, very alone those days, not having Izzy around anymore and the rest of the band reacting to his tumultuous behavior by becoming substance abusers, something Axl could've never understood and always held against them.

Immediately after the tour ended and the party stopped, Axl said he'd like to try and establish a family life with Stephanie and Dylan, as touring had kept them separated for far too long. Soon after, Stephanie and Axl broke up. Axl'd just gotten back from a lost lawsuit against Steven, and he'd find himself back in court now with Stephanie (and eventually, Erin). On top of that, Geffen began craving for a new album, as it had been already two or so years since GNR hit their latest homerun. The price of success is that one needs to be always ready to deliver when he's up for the bat.

Searching for security, Axl turned to Dylan's babysitter Beta, who'd witnessed first-hand the relationship he'd had with the infant. A surrogate Izzy was to be found in another Indiana boy, Paul Huge. I think they were the two main people Axl laid down his arms in front of, the two people he really felt he could trust, as they'd not become tainted by sucking up to his success. But the rest of the band had become alien to him. He probably didn't even think he knew them anymore. He must've felt he was the sole remaining voice of reason in the band and needed to do whatever must've been done to keep it alive. Axl now wanted control.

Steven, Erin and Stephanie were all people who Axl must've felt ultimately tried to cheat him of his money and didn't really care for him. Same kind of abusers like his stepfather. This was likely a contributing factor as to why Axl felt he needed to take charge of the situation and save the one thing that was still his: the band. By dissolving the partnership and taking his name to nominally form a 'new' group with the identical lineup, Axl put everybody on a leash and hoped they'd have the stomach to go through the motions under his guidance. Bringing back Paul Huge (following the disastrous attempt to sneak him onto SFTD), Axl proclaimed this was the new rhythm guitarist and that the work on the album should proceed, based on the songs the Indiana boys had come up with. One of those songs was Oklahoma, which was no doubt a painful and ironic remark to Erin, set against the Oklahoma city bombings which occurred a day before their reunion in court.

Of course, the band couldn't keep up with Axl. Slash was the first to see the impenetrability of the situation. Axl had Paul on his side and he held court with no-one else. Slash wasn't the lead guitarist anymore, he was a two-bit contract player to a man he'd once called a friend. Plainly, it just wasn't fun anymore, not to mention Snakepit'd given him a reminder of what the Troubadour days were all about. So Slash took the high road, a show of character which no doubt baffled Axl for a while. When the half-complete album didn't come together despite plans to complete and release it without Slash, Matt got fired for getting into an argument with Paul. Paul hardly broke up GNR by himself. While he no doubt felt most strongly for his old buddy Axl, the tensions must've ran high amongst the members, and Paul was in a tough spot to begin with. His friend, Axl, the boss said he was in and the others had to live with it. Maybe Paul should've quit but leaving his friend into a jam might've come to haunt him in the years to come. So, he stayed, playing alongside Duff and Robin during the initiatory jams of the new lead guitarist. Duff had a child Axl never had and re-evaluated his priorities in life. Frankly, Duff didn't need to be a contract player.

So then there was only one...

That's one of the reasons CD has been made the way it has been done. People were walking out on Axl left and right, and before he realized there were no more old associates around, the door was slammed shut on the other end of the room. The echo can still be heard in the corner of Axl's mind, playing itself out every night.

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

Re: Axl's years of therapy - what has been achieved?

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