Overall feelings on the CD era songs....

gunnermatt2008

hi guys its good to be talking about "new songs " again however i must say i hope that the vocals on madagascar are not the final ones because to me they would have to be the worst W.A.R vocals i have ever heard and the early madagascar leak a fair while ago now were so much better.
Axl sounds like he is really struggling if this is the finished product.

Sorry to be negative

Cheers Matt

monkeychow

I've been thinking a bit about the whole 'impressions of the CD project' topic and thought I'd add some thoughts.

Here is what I think of the songs so far, and then my thoughts on the overall concepts:

Chinese Democracy - I always thought this song was weak compared to other songs from the live boots, but it really came up well in the studio form, and the chorus is so catchy. Really like it.

'The Unknown Song' - This was a shock to the system compared to traditional GNR. Has a slightly '˜james bond' feel too it. Axl has delivered really interesting lyrics on this track. At first I really felt that this track was musically incomplete - like the melody in the lyrics was awesome but didn't seem to go with the backing perfectly. But I think maybe its just a grower - as since I heard if I've spent days humming the melodies to myself. So while at first I was a bit like 'huh' I think I'll soon be saying I love this track. I already love from about 3.40 onward'¦

Better - Great track. So many good things in this song.

IRS - I know people don't like this song. I've always dug it. Slow opening...but I love the emotion Axl sings it with. And that bucket solo/axl screen combination really rocks!! Cool song.

Rhiad - I've never understood this song. On live boots it was one of the only GNR songs I never got into. Maybe its just a little too far outside the box for me. It's the rhythms of the song I find unplesent'¦its like a manic mess and doesn't seem to have any structure I can appreciate. However the studio version of the track is listenable, but overall I feel its not up to the standard set by the rest of the material.

Oh My God - Now this like Rhiad is crazy structure compared to classic gnr. But I feel they pull it off better in this track. I know a lot of people hate this song'¦but I think the lyrics are really cool.

If the World - My issue with this song is the flamenco style guitars. Not sure they're working very well with the funky vibe that comes in after it. Although I'll grant the outro-speed lick on the acoustic is cool. This is the song that seems messy to me. Again - an awesome melody from Axl - but its like the band is lost - especially at like 1.06 and again at 2.19. its like the verses are unaccompanied just cos no one new what to make fit with the funky chorus vibe Its also another one of these songs where the multiple guitar parts don't make much sence. Like heavier guitars being drowned out by a flamenco. Although the electric lead solo in the middle is cool. I guess its sounding like I don't like this song from what I'm saying'¦but I still kind of do..its haunting and memorable'¦I just feel something was lacking from it musically that could have made it really be fantastic. Maybe its just the shock of hearing GNR in lounge mode tho!

The blues - Fantastic song. Robin's solo almost brings him to classic gnr level on this one. Great all round crossover song I think. Could be a radio song like '˜yesterdays' to me. This one has the '˜finished' feel that '˜if the world' lacked IMHO.

Madagascar - people often describe this as a weak song..but I've always been amazed by it. I loved it when it hit back in RIR and it still gets me today. To me it's a modern classic.

There was a Time - this is the epic ballad of this band, ala breakdown, estranged and November rain. Fantastic song. Axl's 'I would do anything for you' makes the song. Definitely one of the strongest tracks of the band.

Catcher in the Rye - this is a really inspiring melody from Axl. I love it'¦it's a shame it seems to have been dropped from CD from Axl's trunk interview. It's such a loss.
Sometimes I wonder how many awesome songs like this are lost to time like this.

Sailing - adding this here even though I've only heard poor quality boots. Seems this song really suits Axl's voice in such an uplifting way. I know people don't want covers'¦but given every album since AFD had a cover'¦hell'¦.if there's going to be a cover'¦I'd blow someone for a studio GNR version of this song!

So there's a few overarching thoughts I have:

THE GROW:
The interesting thing about a number of these tracks is they really 'grow' on you. Now I know people often say 'you shouldn't have to try and like something' when I make that kind of comment'¦but I think its also because some of the melodies are unusual and the structures are slightly challenging. Like in a normal rock song - you can predict exactly the way the melody goes - but these are different - so at first you are somewhat thrown and can't sing along - but once you learn how these go - the tunes become somewhat haunting and you start to really love them!

STYLE:
The structure of the songs. It's interesting how some of them are basically classic GNR tunes. Like TWAT and The Blues in particular are old gnr vibe, but to an extent even maddy and IRS are songs that are totally old gnr vibe. Then you have these kind of industrial type songs like Rhiad and OMG that are way out there. Then the hybrid ones like better and cd that are a bit of both camps. Then these new leaks that are in totally non-rock styles. I guess Axl really did want to try new things as a musician.

VOICE:

It's obvious to me Axl's voice has changed over the years. I don't know why - maybe its age - maybe its damage from the UYI tours - maybe its something else - but he doesn't have the exact same voice he had back in the day. However - I don't see this change as necessarily a negative thing. He still has an unmistakable Axl sound to him that no-one else can truly rip off. Its like maybe he lost some of the strength and power in his voice, but he now has even more range and can go higher. I've shared some of Nemo's concerns about the voice at live performances. I suspected since 2002 that there was some issue - like why come out and sing your sings differently unless you had to. Then in 2006 the rasp was back which is great - but on the lower songs like patience he still sounds a bit like he is struggling and doing an imitation of what he used to do naturally. But of course you have the new super-high parts in the leaks which are awesome! When people worried about the live voice I always thought it would work out ok in the studio - as aside from studio antics - there's the simple fact of being able to do it a few times and on a day when your voice is in top form. Which is why I'd rather see a GNR reunion record than live shows if I had to choose 1 or the other. But getting back on topic'¦I think the voice is different here'¦but not in a bad way'¦axl's new sound really works with these new songs'¦he sounds incredible on the track we don't know the name of. It's interesting too'¦I played these tracks to a friend of mine who doesn't really follow GNR and she had heard stuff about how Axl had lost his voice from the kind of crap comment people post on you tube and she immediately said sarcasticly 'oh yeah'¦cos he can't sing anymore' and was impressed at the vocal abilities displayed. So I think different or not - these songs show axl still has it.

GUITARISTS:

Sorry'¦but I'm still not sold on the 3 guitarists concept. It seems like just a way to cover the places where there are weaker guitar parts to me. Like bring in another person to try something else. And it makes for an identity crisis in the song's style I think. God knows how many people are on 'If the world'

MULTIPLE VERSIONS:

One of the strange things about this leak system is we're getting the chance to hear the changes. I've lost count of how many IRS variants we have now. And it also seems Axl listens to the feedback. Lots of people didn't like the maddy singing..now we seem to have a different take'¦.coincidence? The danger is going to be if the final version comes out and is missing something we've grown to love from the leaks! Its going to be hard to please everyone.

THE ROCK:

I love these songs. But to make a cohesive album I hope theres a few harder rocking tracks. Then again'¦UYI 1 and 2 are not cohesive in that sence..like they go from epics to rockers to country style'¦.i think maybe its just the GNR way. This will be the same'¦epic (twat)..ballad (the blues)'¦semi rocker (IRS) to lounge (if the world) to Rhiad style'¦.

OVERANALYSIS:

In our on going critique of all these new songs. Sometimes I wonder how the old stuff would stand up to this level of nitpicking. Don't get me wrong - I love old GNR with my soul'¦but at the same time - do we set a harsh standard - like is EVERY old gnr track really perfect? People love to say IRS is weak'¦but what the hell is 'you aint the first' or 'so fine' - they're likable songs for sure'¦but I think we have to be careful not to sanctify everything old just cos it is old.

OVERALL:

This is what I'd expect from Axl. Amazing lyrics, inspired singing. I'd say it's shaping up to be a killer album. There's no question that in places its going to be very different from traditional GNR, but its clearly mostly of an impressive standard anyway that's going to be a worthy addition to my music collection. Although there's flashes of brilliance from the rest of the band in the occasional solo and so forth, I feel that musically the band is not writing at the same level as the lyrics and melodies which are the standout features of these songs to me.

Which figures. Axl is one (big) part of the whole that was GNR. When I listen to Snakepit 1 I hear amazing guitar and riffage - but weaker melodies and lyrics. When I listen to CD I hear amazing vocals and melodies'¦but weaker and less cohesive musical structure. On their own - each artist has delivered solo material that proves their independent talent - maybe now we could stop the pissing contest and go back to making music with both halves of the equation intact. But that's just a dream!

Backslash

I gotta say, I like TWAT and CD, but other than that, I can leave the leaks. I'm not a fan of Axl's Mickey Mouse voice in The Blues and these new songs.

bigbri

Anyone notice the cool new guitar effect at 4.00 of IRS, right after Bucket finishes using the killswitch?

Gunslinger

James Lofton wrote:

These demos(all of them) shit all over VR in my opinion.
Its not even close.

I agree 100% on this remark.

T.W.A.T./Better/The Blues/Chinese Democracy ... these are SOLID even if some of the other leaks are mediocre. I like I.R.S. myself and find it better than anything VR did on two full albums, the only exception being "Slither". Even the new leaks are better than VR's efforts. I'm not a huge fan of If The World for example but the writing, singing (Axl sounds GREAT) and production make it at least a real effort rather than just a group of very talented people coming together to do extremely mediocre, half hearted and half realized songs that wouldn't even be decent "b-sides" for the most part.

war

A4L2.0 wrote:

russtcb wrote:
Gunslinger wrote:
All in all I like what I have heard, I thought New Song 2 was good, not much into "If the World" and really glad to hear Riyadh in studio form. Better and the Blues are still my favorite.
If this is pretty much the album it's ok, not great but does have moments. I still kind of believe what we have heard was to keep interest somewhat alive and there is a strong possibility that there may be stronger tracks waiting. Just an opinion.
Speaking of which, what could be left that we know of? If I'm guessing right:
Sorry
The General
Thyme
This I Love
Correct?
Checkmate
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xs8XkywjO80
I've been waiting to hear this for years.

the clip of checkmate that we all know is gnr sounds like a great track

add a couple great rockers to the mix of what we already have and it could really go from a "decent" album to a completely cool album

war

James Lofton wrote:

These demos(all of them) shit all over VR in my opinion.
Its not even close.

i am surprised anyone would disagree

Gunslinger

russtcb wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:
All in all I like what I have heard, I thought New Song 2 was good, not much into "If the World" and really glad to hear Riyadh in studio form. Better and the Blues are still my favorite.
If this is pretty much the album it's ok, not great but does have moments. I still kind of believe what we have heard was to keep interest somewhat alive and there is a strong possibility that there may be stronger tracks waiting. Just an opinion.
Speaking of which, what could be left that we know of? If I'm guessing right:
Sorry
The General
Thyme
This I Love
Correct?

Well over the years there have been tons of rumoured tracks. I really don't remember all the names. Prostitute (of course...and no I do NOT believe #2 is Prostitute)/Oklahoma/Something Always/CockaRoach Soup (something like that)/Zip It/Friend or Foe/Suckerpunched...there's plenty more if I could think of them. Something Always is one I would REALLY like to hear, has a ring to the title I like.

Mikkamakka

war wrote:

James Lofton wrote:
These demos(all of them) shit all over VR in my opinion.
Its not even close.
i am surprised anyone would disagree

I disagree, but I don't wanna hijack the thread It's clear that Axl has a lot of ambition - which VR seems/seemed to totally lack... half-assed song-writing, one riff is one song... eh... but the Axl staff suffers of the lack of spontanity and... yes... good ideas. The VR thing is mostly typical a good idea here and thee, but a rushed and too simple song in the end. NuGN'R's songs aren't simple, but why need to add more synth lines if you don't have a good idea to work on it? The biggest problem of the Axl era GN'R is that it's a puzzle of bad, medisocre or better ideas, and then 2 years later another people try to add something to make it work..then another and another... I couldn't decide between TWAT and Messages, Better and Slither... but when it comes to Riyadh and Big Machine the only thing I can think of is why they didn't nix it. So much wasted time...

Back on topic. My biggest problem with the Axl era GN'R is not that it's different from the classic era. I expected Axl to change and he tried to do something new, which is great. But he clearly didn't/doesn't have focus, couldn't rid of his cheesy 80s roots (which wasn't part of the classic GN'R!) and didn't have people talented enough, to write songs for him. Bucket is really good here and there, but the others... it could be Fasttracker 2 and nobody would realize. To tell the truth the whole thing sounds like something made on Fasttracker 2. Pitman is the biggest disappointment for me.

monkeychow

The other thing with people comparing to VR is you should also consider the other works.

Its not hard to find seven cool riffs if you look at everything slash has done post GNR (like snakepit 1, 2, VR, solo stuff).

Axl's work is on a lyrical and melody level above what slash's other singers do. But the afformentioned riffs would topple most of the guitar stuff in the leaks. Appart from the occasional bucket solo, guitarwise they arn't too exciting.

I just wish we could hear Axl sing on the riffs from "it's five o'clock" and hear what slash would do with a song like the Track#2 leak of Axls.....

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