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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
I wonder how much material Finck has written. Obviously his solos, but like how we know Better was written by him, what other songs were Robin creations? And how advanced was what he wrote for Better? Did he come in with the song all prepared, an intro, a verse line, a choruse line, maybe a break, and a solo? Or did the rest of the band flesh it all out, with Robin simply contributing the basic riff.
I'm also interested in how much writing he's tried to do or has wanted to do for NIN. He was brought on after Downward Spiral was released, so he had no chance to write for that record. And he chose not to wait for the next studio release, joining Cirque de Soleil, then going to Guns. He obviously wrote for Guns, but as we already have agreed on he doesn't fit in classic GN'R style. Then he quit to re-join NIN, but having been occupied during the album-writing years, his playing and writing is completely absent, while other touring members like Danny Lohner, Charlie Clouser, and Jerome Dillon do make appearances on the album. So he toured Fragile, before quitting after being abused by drunk Trent.
Back in GNR, where things rarely happen, he probably wrote more and recorded more, this time with Buckethead around. But in 08 there's not a ton to show for it.
And we pretty much know he feels more comfortable with NIN's style, he recorded for The Slip, although he didn't write, so do you think he has any ambition of writing music for the next NIN album?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
the first blues solo stinks too :sick:
you really think that? I was dubious about the progression of the solo until 2:38 and there's something nice in that part to me. Something about that high bit always snaps me to attention if i'm listening while typing or something.
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
Here's my thoughts on Finck
- Really liked his role in NIN from when I saw the NIN DVD 'The Thing That Could Have Been'
- Was surprised when he first joined GNR and thought he looked a bit out of place (although that doesn't really bother me)
- I do think he had his moments on some of the old songs live. I think he was trying to add his signature with the off key thing, but it just didn't suit the songs, probably because we've heard them so many times, and really you can't fuck around with them.
- Listening to the leaks again, I get his contribution. I think the song Better was excellent, and I think his style of playing really fitted the new stuff.
- As a person, he seemed really cool, and his new image fit GNR well. I also liked his website, his art and he just seemed a likeable character
Overall, if it was up to me they'd keep Finck but bring back the Bucket. Despite whether they got on or not I feel that their styles seemed to blend well together and I think if the album was released, they toured again but played mostly new songs we would see a diffrent side of all of the band, Brain included. It seems such a waste
I also think Robin had a lot to do with the songwriting, probably more than we appreciate right now, its just we've heard more of Bucket's contribution which is less subtle.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
Since Fortus is supposedly a God, it makes you wonder why he wasn't given Finck's role in the band.
I'm not one of those people that worships fortus and likes to kiss his ass, but I must say that from watching his solo spots, it's clear he has some technical ability on guitar, and I would guess is actually better than robin is a lot of ways. Maybe Axl was trying to be nice to fink, I mean he already got bucket in to add parts that Robin can't do, getting fortus to play the remaining solos would be pretty rough. Anyway i'm not sure if you were kidding, but I could actually see that resulting in a rendition more acceptable to most old school fans.
I've been thinking more about Robin, and there is something that's always confused me. At first, I assumed the problem was as others have said, that he isn't primarily a blues rock guitarist, he is more industrial, and was basicly out of his league attempting to replicate the sound of one of the most iconic blues rock players out there. But on his solo spot on tour here, he played a full on blues kinda thing...and that made me wonder what his deal really is. I still think it's likely he plays them different intentionally to not show up that he can't play them like slash note for note, so rather than show he is unable he makes it look like he doesn't want to. So he's added a ton of his own style to cover it. Just my opinion.
I'm about to say something controversial. So hopefully this won't shit everyone off too bad. An idea just came into my mind on a related topic. But I think maybe each of the lead guitarists was hired by Axl to be somewhat of a one-trick pony in this band. I know that sounds like madness, but let me explain what I mean.
If you think of the Robin solos...the parts Neemo listed that he hates...they are all pretty similar...massive bends..dissonance....its all very much in the exact same style..and that's what he has added to the old songs too. Love it like guys like JB do, or hate it like Neemo. It's always the same thing when he plays a solo...
Then look at bucket. Sure he has the technical ability to play anything. But what has he been reduced to doing in most GNR songs? To my ears its like the same three things: 1. A sudden burst of insanely hard to play shred - such as his solo in IRS, or when he "tags in" on the latter part of the CD solo. 2. Octive shift peddal madness...such as in Rhiad and his solo in Song #2 and 3. What i call a "spider run" because I don't know the technical term - its the two handed tap thing where he plays upside down on the fretboard using both hands over the guitar. As used to great effect in "Jordan" etc. But you hear him doing this in Better in the short burst, and then again in Rhiad near the end. Bucket is an amazing player and i'm not saying this to knock him at all...i'm just saying its like all they wanted him for in places is a bad ass run for 10 seconds leading up to the choruses and stuff. Mostly he overdubs a solo. Basicly he's been asked to do the same few tricks over and over again.
I dunno, I might be heading up the wrong tree with this whole line of thought. But i'm just wondering if that's what it comes down to. Bucket is hired to add the shred bursts, robin is hired to add the dissonance style industrial solos, and they don't seem to have a lot of chances to really try much outside of that box. People talk about how these songs are written for 3 guitars a lot. But I ask...are they really? or are they written for three different people? each with their own style. How often are all 3 guitars playing a distinct and audible part over each other...it happens for sure...but if you had a guitasrist that could do all the styles i don't think you'd loose much, like if one guy played robin's bend solo then bucket's shred run. I'm getting way off track, but sometimes i think Axl just hires people who have a distincitive and unusual sound rather than anything else. Think about it...it's not like robin will bust out a dissonance solo and we'll all think that its bucket...and likewise..when bucket plays what he does its pretty damn clear that's who is behind the strings. Likewise slash has a distinctive touch when he was in the band.
Anyway I think robin's playing on the new songs is a love it or hate it kinda thing. I personally think his style suits the new songs ok as they have been written for it. Just like Axl's modern higher voice works in the new songs to me. But I'm not such a fan of the new high voice singing the old songs, and i'm not a fan of robin's interpretation of AFD solos.
Which is the problem i've had with this band for a while now. I like new lineups when they play their songs - which is maybe 4 songs if that a night. But they totally own when they do that. But if I'm going to hear a classic set list - either give me the men who wrote it - or at a minimum people who will cover and replicate it to perfection - not a bunch of industrial shit blended into the best blues rock album ever.
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
I'm about to say something controversial. So hopefully this won't shit everyone off too bad. An idea just came into my mind on a related topic. But I think maybe each of the lead guitarists was hired by Axl to be somewhat of a one-trick pony in this band. I know that sounds like madness, but let me explain what I mean.
If you think of the Robin solos...the parts Neemo listed that he hates...they are all pretty similar...massive bends..dissonance....its all very much in the exact same style..and that's what he has added to the old songs too. Love it like guys like JB do, or hate it like Neemo. It's always the same thing when he plays a solo...
Then look at bucket. Sure he has the technical ability to play anything. But what has he been reduced to doing in most GNR songs? To my ears its like the same three things: 1. A sudden burst of insanely hard to play shred - such as his solo in IRS, or when he "tags in" on the latter part of the CD solo. 2. Octive shift peddal madness...such as in Rhiad and his solo in Song #2 and 3. What i call a "spider run" because I don't know the technical term - its the two handed tap thing where he plays upside down on the fretboard using both hands over the guitar. As used to great effect in "Jordan" etc. But you hear him doing this in Better in the short burst, and then again in Rhiad near the end. Bucket is an amazing player and i'm not saying this to knock him at all...i'm just saying its like all they wanted him for in places is a bad ass run for 10 seconds leading up to the choruses and stuff. Mostly he overdubs a solo. Basicly he's been asked to do the same few tricks over and over again.
I don't think that's controversial at all, I've thought that same thing for a long time.
I thought it enough, that I kinda assumed everyone else did too. So maybe I was wrong and it's just you and I.
I don't think there's anything offensive about it though. Make no mistake, these guys were all hired to help bring a specific vision to life(ok, typing specific vision made me laugh, but you know what I mean). That's much different than starting a band together. It would make perfect sense for them to all be hired for a specific position, just like anyone else would be in a corporation building to a specific purpose.
- jimmythegent
- Rep: 30
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
When I saw them play in Auckland last year, the defining moment was Patience - the song was a highlight of the set for me - Axl delivered as did everyone.
Solo time and Finck steps up to the plate. Words can't describe how he butchered it. The most simplest and melodic of solos was turned into a tuneless, shapeless, off key mess. All he needed to do was play a few low key blues licks. But no
I won't even go into his 'solo' which was horrific.
I like his solo on Better - but how many takes did he do to get it sounding like that in the stidio I wonder?
The Blues- nice note selection, but his timing is all off on it - it doesn't flow how it should. Listen to Estranged solos or even BH or TWAT. Thats the standard.
I saw Finck for the first time in 2000 with NIN. He was awesome - but like someone said, he stuck to what he knew and does well - punching out industrial riffs. The guy is not a lead guitar player, I'm sorry.
- estrangedpaul
- Rep: 5
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
Is there anything Finck can do to silence these types of nay sayers?
Playing the songs correctly would be a good start. There is this annoying thing he does where he kinda plays the note muted for a second before playing the actual note. It just doesn't work on the GnR classics. His solos on the new stuff are great. I like BH's versions of the classic solos but Slash will always be king when it comes to AFD solos.
I don't think he does it to annoy Slash - it would just be silly and I don't think Axl would allow it. I think he genuinely believes he is adding his touch to the songs.
Re: A Random Forum Post about Finck
Neemo wrote:the first blues solo stinks too :sick:
you really think that? I was dubious about the progression of the solo until 2:38 and there's something nice in that part to me. Something about that high bit always snaps me to attention if i'm listening while typing or something.
yeah i understand what your saying and ai agree in a sense but when you only 30-40 seconds for asolo spot and the majority is that dissonence shit i dunno...i sounds like hes fighting his guitar everytime he has a solo and it takes 20-30 seconds for him to get a grip on what hes supposed to be doing.
I think he is definately suited to NIN stuff...and I think he would be ok as a rhythm guy cuz some of the stuff goin on when Axl is singing or something sounds pretty cool...but when he hits that volume pedal he has issues
To your other post that was bloddy fantastic man Karma...you havea good point and maybe its what happened. I know when i saw GnR in 02 BH was either very noticeable or very absent...there were even times when i htink he left the stage. I'm almost 100% sure that during NR he was off the stage until the end solo started i beleiev that Fortus is a decent guitar player but i dont think he has been given much of an oportunity to show what he can bring to the table because when he was there he weas competing with BH and Robin who were already in the driver seat of the lead duties...that eing said i'm sure that Ron and Fortus could make 2 guitars work...many bands have layered guitars these days but it comes to how closely they want to replicate the new material? but on the other hand if they want to replicate the new material why not play the old material exact? maybe reworking the songs was the only way that Robin would agree to play it all? i dunno another thing we dont really know what robin brings to the table when BBF or BH are shredding...are the other 2 guitarists doing the same shit as each other? or are they doing octaves with the chords? maybe like i said i dunno
I'm with jimmy the gent 100%....Robin sucks playing patience...and russ you need your hearing checked bro 
without getting into the Slash argument i just wanna say that its fucked up that GnR needs 2 guys to attempt to accomplish what slash did as one man
