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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
The question as the thread title is NOT meant to bring about posts like - "Bumble isn't good enough". We aren't debating (well, in here, at least) whether the members deserve to be here. We're going to decide if we'd wish they moved ont o bigger and better things.
Being in GNR has meant wasting time and creativity for a long time. Artists like Buckethead were strangled by Guns' inactivity for years, and in the 4 years since he quit he's put out what - 20 albums? His output was stunted by Guns, no doubt about that.
Now Robin appears to be gone too. And I actually am happy for him. I hope he doesn't come back. When he was in Guns I sometimes wanted him to quit and find a place to be productive - his discography is almost empty and yet he's sought out by two of the greatest hard rock groups of the past 20 years. I'm glad he's found a new place in the new NIN and feel bad that years of is career were wasted in a band that doesn't release music.
So what about the others? Freese left and has appeared on dozens of albums (if not hundreds) in the past 8 years. Brain had a kid, but he appears to be on his way to doing more interesting things than Guns has to offer (all those drum machines and computer-beats in newGuns - what wasted years Brain had in this band).
I know you CAN do other things while in Guns. But you're always held back in some capacity. Don't you want to see Tommy and Ron do something worthy of their time and talent? Don't you want to see Richard and Frank to find a place where they can have creative input?
Maybe I'm crazy, but how long is too long to stay in this band that consistently fails to put out new music?
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
Bucket:
yes i am glad bucket was in gnr. he clearly had the most to offer the project that i feel will bring us hours of listening pleasure when it is released. whether us bucket fans want to admit it or not, bucket was a nobody before he joined gnr. yes, he could have put out more albums had he not joined gnr but nobody would have known to listen to them.
The rest of the past members (not including finck):
could give or take
Robin Finck:
yes i am glad finck was in gnr. has stayed active with both NIN and GNR over the past several years so he's gotten plenty exposure and money (i am assuming he will appear on relased gnr music sooner than later). he has contributed some soulful music to the leaks. will make cd better. IMO robin is still open to touring with gnr when he is finished with nin.
some of you guys forget that these are adults we are talking about . they are responsible for their own decisions. if their careers are being wasted it is noboidy's fault but their own (not cd's).
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
It is not wasted if you are getting paid very well. They are professional musicians with families to raise. All current and former members have done other things while in Gnr. They have not been held back against their will. I am 41 with a family, just like most of these guys, and know the advantages of a steady paycheck while supporting a family. I don't feel for them at all.
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
Before Buckethead joined GNR, he'd released a total of five solo albums between '92 (Bucketheadland) and '99 (Monsters and Robots). During his four years in Guns, he released eight studio albums. He also joined forces with Village studio engineer Dan Monti, a collaboration which helped him to reach a new artistic peak. In the long run, GNR was very good for Bucket, even though at times it was an extremely frustrating environment.
Tommy was living in the shadow of Paul Westerberg, as he'd gotten a short straw as The Mats collapsed and his most recent effort, Perfect, saw the record label giving a cold shoulder at the eve of an album release. Tommy wasn't working as a full-time musician anymore; he was a telemarketer. GNR's been (again) good for Tommy, as he made the contacts necessary with Sean Beavan, Axl and Sanctuary to get a solo record produced and released. Since his GNR post, he's also appeared more regularly in various soundtracks and other instances.
Robin's the kind of guy who got into the whole deal a bit ass-backwards. He's hardly a session player, he's a live musician. Be it Downward Spiral, Fragile, or Quidam @ Cirque de Soleil, Robin's forte has seemingly been the distinctive emotion with which he performs musical pieces. He's the epitome of a solid tour player; enthusiastic enough to perform someone else's songs - yet arrogant enough to withhold any unwarranted respect or sense of nostalgia. Robin's playing has always had a 'my way or the highway' attitude in it, which was sure to rile up all the Slash-a-haulics out there. Robin, he didn't care. He made sure that even if he was rocking out AFD every night, there was no top hat to be found in his repertoire.
All the people who moan about Robin's scarce discography might actually be missing the point. Robin might not be a person who measures his own merit in studio releases. His personal first love might even be the performance-side of things, playing live before an audience, doing tunes oneself can enjoy (despite whether he'd actually written them or not) and share the good vibrations with the audience. If studio work is secondary compared to the live rush, it may not be as much a wonder that Axl was the first to offer an unexperienced session player the chance to play lead in one of the biggest bands in the world. Robin didn't sought the job out; Axl must've seen something in him and decided to go for it.
(The same thing can be said about Paul Huge; although he's the polar opposite of Robin. For Paul, the fun lay in the studio work: trying out, experimenting, tinkering. He was an unexperienced live player and Axl wanted him on board as well.)
All the studio work Robin's done since has occurred on the strength of Chinese Democracy. John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars and Clint Mansell's Rain both happened in the laborious studio year of 2001, just Robin taking a break of re-recording parts already finished two years before. Taking his newly-gained studio experience and capitalizing on it a little.
Even LedZAerial, the Zeppelin tribute with some Cirque de Soleil associates was just another form of self-expression through music written by other people. Robin obviously had a knack for Jimmy Page and felt, again, that he could express himself through Page's riffs. There's no reason why you should push it trying imitate your heroes, when you can study their work hands-on and share the sensations they had when belting them out. Robin doesn't have to sound like Jimmy Page, he's probably more interested in taking something that's from Page and find out how much Robin he can inject into it.
Trent's known Robin for 14 years and has hired him on tours three times. Took him all this time to get Robin on studio, which should tell you something. For 14 years, Trent didn't see a studio musician, he saw a ripping live performer. He could've organized Robin to guest on NIN sessions in a flash, as both GNR and NIN were on Interscope roster. But Trent had to do two more albums while Axl was mixing his - and still Trent's not calling Robin.
Finally, The Slip. It's a rather unusual recording by NIN, as it's the live band playing their respective instrumental parts rather Trent being cooped in the studio for months on end. That's one of things Trent submitted to in order to get the album out relatively fast in the heels of Ghosts I-IV (which could've featured Robin, but didn't, btw). Therefore, Robin's appearance on The Slip, while commendable and overdue, reeks heavily of convenient timing. He came in and played, so that he could tour behind it. Sounds like the work ethics of Slash's Snakepit. Nothing wrong with that, but the creative freedom may be slightly on the slim side.
CD is still Robin's album. Somehow, I get the feeling that he would prefer to be remembered as a GNR studio musician rather than as a journeyman axe-handler (Richard Fortus, please stand up).
The one person who wasted a lot of years without doing much anything else is, sadly, Axl Rose.
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
I am going to focus on Bucket Finck and Tommy.....the only guys I really care about. Bucket definitely benefited because he received the most exposure with MTV interviews and the highest profile in magazine stories. Finck benefited because he got to be creative in the studio and his relationship with Trent cooled after the Fagile tour. Tommy benefited as much as Bucket due to the media attention he got as he was focused on a little more in articles due to the Replacements background. He also got the solo album and Perfect album released due to his connections with the redhead. He probably benefitted more than anyone...even Bucket.
Robin left simply because he got a better business deal and the future is wide open since Trent has no label connections. Axl is completely bogged down right now due to his relationship with Uni. Robin obviously did not see a future with Axl partly due to label issues and I am sure partly due to the fact that there is a high probability of a reunion in the not too distant future. Azoff sealed his fate in a way. Knowing his recording was done, he bolted for a wide open avenue with Trent.
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
Before Buckethead joined GNR, he'd released a total of five solo albums between '92 (Bucketheadland) and '99 (Monsters and Robots). During his four years in Guns, he released eight studio albums. He also joined forces with Village studio engineer Dan Monti, a collaboration which helped him to reach a new artistic peak. In the long run, GNR was very good for Bucket, even though at times it was an extremely frustrating environment.
Tommy was living in the shadow of Paul Westerberg, as he'd gotten a short straw as The Mats collapsed and his most recent effort, Perfect, saw the record label giving a cold shoulder at the eve of an album release. Tommy wasn't working as a full-time musician anymore; he was a telemarketer. GNR's been (again) good for Tommy, as he made the contacts necessary with Sean Beavan, Axl and Sanctuary to get a solo record produced and released. Since his GNR post, he's also appeared more regularly in various soundtracks and other instances.
Robin's the kind of guy who got into the whole deal a bit ass-backwards. He's hardly a session player, he's a live musician. Be it Downward Spiral, Fragile, or Quidam @ Cirque de Soleil, Robin's forte has seemingly been the distinctive emotion with which he performs musical pieces. He's the epitome of a solid tour player; enthusiastic enough to perform someone else's songs - yet arrogant enough to withhold any unwarranted respect or sense of nostalgia. Robin's playing has always had a 'my way or the highway' attitude in it, which was sure to rile up all the Slash-a-haulics out there. Robin, he didn't care. He made sure that even if he was rocking out AFD every night, there was no top hat to be found in his repertoire.
All the people who moan about Robin's scarce discography might actually be missing the point. Robin might not be a person who measures his own merit in studio releases. His personal first love might even be the performance-side of things, playing live before an audience, doing tunes oneself can enjoy (despite whether he'd actually written them or not) and share the good vibrations with the audience. If studio work is secondary compared to the live rush, it may not be as much a wonder that Axl was the first to offer an unexperienced session player the chance to play lead in one of the biggest bands in the world. Robin didn't sought the job out; Axl must've seen something in him and decided to go for it.
(The same thing can be said about Paul Huge; although he's the polar opposite of Robin. For Paul, the fun lay in the studio work: trying out, experimenting, tinkering. He was an unexperienced live player and Axl wanted him on board as well.)
All the studio work Robin's done since has occurred on the strength of Chinese Democracy. John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars and Clint Mansell's Rain both happened in the laborious studio year of 2001, just Robin taking a break of re-recording parts already finished two years before. Taking his newly-gained studio experience and capitalizing on it a little.
Even LedZAerial, the Zeppelin tribute with some Cirque de Soleil associates was just another form of self-expression through music written by other people. Robin obviously had a knack for Jimmy Page and felt, again, that he could express himself through Page's riffs. There's no reason why you should push it trying imitate your heroes, when you can study their work hands-on and share the sensations they had when belting them out. Robin doesn't have to sound like Jimmy Page, he's probably more interested in taking something that's from Page and find out how much Robin he can inject into it.
Trent's known Robin for 14 years and has hired him on tours three times. Took him all this time to get Robin on studio, which should tell you something. For 14 years, Trent didn't see a studio musician, he saw a ripping live performer. He could've organized Robin to guest on NIN sessions in a flash, as both GNR and NIN were on Interscope roster. But Trent had to do two more albums while Axl was mixing his - and still Trent's not calling Robin.
Finally, The Slip. It's a rather unusual recording by NIN, as it's the live band playing their respective instrumental parts rather Trent being cooped in the studio for months on end. That's one of things Trent submitted to in order to get the album out relatively fast in the heels of Ghosts I-IV (which could've featured Robin, but didn't, btw). Therefore, Robin's appearance on The Slip, while commendable and overdue, reeks heavily of convenient timing. He came in and played, so that he could tour behind it. Sounds like the work ethics of Slash's Snakepit. Nothing wrong with that, but the creative freedom may be slightly on the slim side.
CD is still Robin's album. Somehow, I get the feeling that he would prefer to be remembered as a GNR studio musician rather than as a journeyman axe-handler (Richard Fortus, please stand up).
The one person who wasted a lot of years without doing much anything else is, sadly, Axl Rose.
great post and i agree that axl has wasted the most. i still can't believe he's 46 or whatever. a waste of talent imo. i also agree with madagas post. they all make their own decisions although i believe in my heart that most of them at one point or another thought cd was coming and never did. i'm sure working with axl is trying to say the least. i have embraced all the different members and have given them all a fair shake for gn'r is the band that changed my life and the band i stuck with through all the fuckin' shit. i want cd to succeed. i want each member to get their much deserved due credit. i'm happy with all of them in different ways.
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
Like CC, I am glad Finck is gone. He actually gets to have a career now. I'm not the biggest NIN fan, but I'm glad he's there and wish him luck in NIN and whatever else he does. Madagas hits the nail on the head regarding Finck seeing Azoff and the reality of a future reunion and decided to split.
Bucket will have an amazing career. GNR or no GNR. Its just a matter of time until something propels him permanently in the spotlight.
Brain had a kid, but he appears to be on his way to doing more interesting things than Guns has to offer (all those drum machines and computer-beats in newGuns - what wasted years Brain had in this band).
Quoted for truth. Axl had one of the best drummers in the biz(well, two counting Freese) but instead concentrates on stale hip hop beats from The Fat Boys.
Freese was smart to bail so early in the project.
Huge/Tobias seems to be in his own little world. Seems to work with Mank Rage sporadically, and of course does a pretty good job on the leaks. I wish him luck as well.
My respect for Tommy has increased, and whether or not new GNR continues, he will always have solo projects or a Replacements reunion to do.
I don't care about anyone else in the band. I wish them good health and hope they have decent careers outside of GNR, but other than that they mean nothing.
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
Robin Finck - I think he's better with NIN. Trent stays busy, and keeps Robin busy, and Robin likes that. He's slowed himself down for Axl.
Buckethead - most talented musician of anybody associated with GN'R in it's history. He's bigger than this band creatively, and he knew that. Guns is at a loss without him, and it's Axl's fault.
Bumblefoot - benefitted by being in Guns. Seems to be a team player, has struck up a friendship with Axl, likes the fans, the fans like him, very talented, a very good fit.
Richard Fortus - I like Richard, but if Guns weren't there he'd find work. He's the Josh Freese of rhythm guitarists.
Tommy Stinson - I don't think he's hurt by it. The Replacements still are more of an underground band, despite their modest success, and his solo work is strong. I think he's fine waiting for Axl, because I don't think he's got anything else to do.
Josh Freese - better off without Guns. This dude is the busiest of anyone. I think he's a tad overrated by some, but he is talented. No real loss though.
Brain - like Buckethead, his creativity was being held back. He could be far more busy than Axl would allow him to be with Guns.
Frank Ferrer - like with Ron, he's benefitted by being in the band. Relative unknown, but very talented. Doesn't really have anything else to do, and can wait for Guns.
Dizzy Reed - as apart of the GN'R legacy at this point as Axl. Very talented, but not talented enough that I think he's being held back. Axl takes care of him, and i'm glad he's there.
Chris Pittman - held back by the band. Very talented keyboardist, that's been stifled by the band. Glad he's there, but I don't know how glad he is to be there.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Are you glad the members of Guns N' Roses are in Guns N' Roses?
I wonder why this "very talented" bunch shows close to nothing on the leaks (except BH's solos). 
The music is mostly boring and uninspired.
