First single prediction

Brett

Captain Winkler wrote:

WTTJ was not an instant hit when first released, how can you be so deluded as to the think GNR should be catering to what is on contemporary radio "oh this doesnt sound anything like hinder, it couldnt possibly be a hit, we need a more nickelback sounding song, something that everyone will like". GNR never catered to the mainstream, and they never will, the mainstream came to them, and if the new songs appeal to the general public(not what appeals to you) then once again the mainstream will be forced to stand up and take notice. if they recreated WTTJ it wouldn't be a hit, simple. the public will judge these tracks, if they have the same appeal, that same universally unique sound whilst still remaining within the mainstream threshold then the songs, whatever they choose as singles, will become hits.
looking for another SCOM, PC, or WTTJ is just stupid, if we took ourselves back to 1986 and WTTJ leaked, in an unfinished format you'd all be saying "wow i doubt that will appeal to the mainstream radio listeners of today, its nothing like def leopard".
the point is WTTJ, SCOM etc. have the benefit of legacy, nothing will have that immediate effect unless given time, nothing is an instant classic so stop looking for one.
i am tired of reading "oh this album has no chance, wheres a paradise city like song? wheres the next SCOM"

Normally I can agree with this, but I am a unique situation amidst all of this. When I was a kid, I don't know why, but usually I'd get stuck up on the first side or first however many songs on the cassette. Essentially, when I bought UYI II as an adult, I was listening to stuff like Estranged, Breakdown and Locomotive for the first time and my feelings towards them were instant. I never got any such feeling for any of the Chinese Democracy stuff except Madagascar and to a lesser extent, Catcher. As much as I like Better, I find that he did a bit more complicated rhyming but lost his normal lyrical power. I don't think I got Appetite (I'd heard all the great stuff off it) until I was 13 or so and again, instantly, Nightrain just grabbed me.

What I'm most concerned with is Axl never really wrote any lyrics that the masses could latch onto, his stuff was so introverted. You don't have to write stuff for the masses, but don't expect me to latch onto the lyrics if you are so caught up in your own shit. Catcher and Chinese Democracy is sort of an observer's point of view, and that's really what you need sometimes.

I don't mean to sound like a complainer, I'm not really complaining, it's just I'm going to need a lot of stuff clarified in interviews about the songs to see if I can find things deeper in them than I initially did. I don't care about why it got delayed so much as to get deep into the stuff that is out.

gnfnraxl

Axl should have went the solo route with this thing. I agree that aside from a couple of tracks. Out of the 11 songs we've heard thus far there is no instant classics in there except maybe CITR or CD. This album will not be earth shattering and will not revolutionize music. It'll be a good album. Nothing more, nothing else. And because of that it'll be received badly by the critics. They'll say 10 years for this? And they're right. Had this been released in 2000 or 2002 it would've been received differently. And the 3 unheard tracks can't save this album or make it phenomenal. Sad but true. But I still say it'll be a good album.

Captain Winkler

i am sorry but putting a laughing face instead of addressing my point really doesn't help your case. fact remains you can keep looking for another SCOM but you won't find one, and there is a reason AFD is so revered by fans and critics alike, because it was so DIFFERENT to what was going on in the mainstream at the time, just like the leaks are. you think Axl is catering for the mainstream at the moment? catering for what is expected of him? if he was he probably would write another SCOM, sing about debauchery riddled tales of sex and drugs, how pathetic would that be? well it seems that is what you want from him.

saying that you aren't blinded by SCOM or WTTJ legacy is ridiculous. but the public won't be, to those who aren't hardcore GNR fans, SCOM is just a cool song, they're the ones that the album's success hinges upon, and Better or the title track are just as catchy, maybe its because AFD has become such a part of your life, the soundtrack to a stage of your life that nothing can surpass those tracks, no matter what Axl does he will never please you, move on. stop looking for what will not and cannot be recreated.

James

The tracks are good. Some are great. Its more of an actual album than an album consisting of a couple monster hits with songs to fill in the spaces. It should all be taken in at once instead of relying too much on a single to boost it. Maybe it shouldn't even get a properly released single.

Brain once said this was GNR's 'Led Zeppelin II'. Looks to me like its Led Zeppelin III.

Communist China

I'm not even sure what you mean, there, Captain.

Captain Winkler

i see what you're saying brett, but put simply a vast majority of casual fans or the teenage demographic don't care what is being sung about, at least not from my experience( i am a teenager, in before omg how can u possibly know anything about GNR you weren't there!) basically if something sounds cool, they like it, or they communicate with it on a very primal level, that is that if there is prevalent anger in the song and they identify with it.

for me AFD is not the soundtrack of my life and that is where i think the difference lies, i admire the songs, and love nearly all of them. but for me, the chinese democracy leaks have had a far greater impact. sure, there is the element of respecting loving the GNR name and axl so much that i can no longer have a subjective opinion, but i can honestly say no song has had me shouting at the top of my lungs like chinese democracy, just the "even with your iron fist" is so anthemic and so awesome that i love it more than SCOM or WTTJ. and that is what i feel some of the older members of the boards(s)are overlooking, the a good percentage of GNR's demographic was kids, adolescent to people in the 20's, and they have to appeal to a new generation, and that is what the leaks do.

Captain Winkler

Communist China wrote:

I'm not even sure what you mean, there, Captain.

basically i think some people are putting tracks like SCOM and WTTJ on an unattainable pedestal, in the sense that those tracks had a really great impact upon their lives, and that's great i am not detracting from that in anyway, but to a lot of people especially younger fans of old and nuGNR, this won't have happened, that's why i think its unfair to make the comparison.

James

Captain Winkler wrote:

i am sorry but putting a laughing face instead of addressing my point really doesn't help your case. fact remains you can keep looking for another SCOM but you won't find one, and there is a reason AFD is so revered by fans and critics alike, because it was so DIFFERENT to what was going on in the mainstream

Jungle
SCOM
PC
Patience
You Could Be Mine
Don't Cry
November Rain

I'll stop there. If you think those songs weren't meant for mainstream consumption, you're delusional.

it was so DIFFERENT to what was going on in the mainstream at the time, just like the leaks are. you think Axl is catering for the mainstream at the moment?

At the moment? Of course not. These songs are 10 years old, and so are its influences. He was clearly going for that mid/late 90's sound. In other words, he was aiming for the mainstream.

well it seems that is what you want from him.

Good to know that you know what I "want from him".

saying that you aren't blinded by SCOM or WTTJ legacy is ridiculous.
maybe its because AFD has become such a part of your life, the soundtrack to a stage of your life that nothing can surpass those tracks

I don't listen to AFD. Haven't listened to it in years. While it was certainly a part of my youth, the album has no bearing on anything I expect from Chinese Democracy. Hell, I have said for years I hope he gets far away from that sound as my musical tastes have evolved over the years.

The fact I mention it has no Jungles and PCs seems to make you think I wish for AFD vol. 2, which is obviously not how I feel. You are unable to grasp the concept or the text those examples were used in.

no matter what Axl does he will never please you, move on. stop looking for what will not and cannot be recreated.

I don't expect anything to be recreated. Not even a reunion could recreate what the band used to be.

The next time you to tell me to move on from my own site is the day you move on.

Communist China

Captain Winkler wrote:

Communist China wrote:
I'm not even sure what you mean, there, Captain.
basically i think some people are putting tracks like SCOM and WTTJ on an unattainable pedestal, in the sense that those tracks had a really great impact upon their lives, and that's great i am not detracting from that in anyway, but to a lot of people especially younger fans of old and nuGNR, this won't have happened, that's why i think its unfair to make the comparison.

Well like you I'm a teenager and those songs don't fit on the 'tracklist of my life', if there were such a thing, but still I don't hear a CD song like them. Chinese Democracy is the closest to WTTJ in terms of energy, excitement, and just overall rocking, but no ballad touches SCOM - although the ballads in the CD era are very good.

Captain Winkler

@ james

dude that is fine, move on(meant as in move on from afd) was taken out of context but i don't really care, a lot of people here are nice, but the microcosm of this site, coupled with its inactivity at times makes for a potent combination of unrealistic and out of touch views that contemporary society don't share. i am even disgusted with myself for having to type in such a serious manner ON THE INTERNET.

try and refrain from telling me what i can and cannot grasp, i 'grasp' what you're saying, you think there's no tracks of SCOM caliber in the leaks or on the album, cool i disagree, basically what it comes down to is you're disappointed with the album, you've obviously been waiting for it longer than i have, if i had waited that long i might have been disappointed too, however i haven't, and that is why i think my perspective is shared by a greater amount of the general public. basically in the sense that they haven't been waiting for 15 years, haven't listened to the leaks, and haven;t invested as much as you have in the album, and haven't built it up to unattainable levels.

i really don't think GNR ever sat down and said ok, we need to write something specifically for radio, i think they just wrote what they felt, axl had been working on November rain since he was a teenager i hardly think that he wrote it thinking "ok this is going to be a good song but i need to commercialise it for radio". fact remains, GNR were different there is no denying that, but they weren't drastically inventive, just unique, they appealed to the mainstream and obviously at the point they were before the UYI were released ANYTHING they wrote would be pounced upon by the mainstream audience.

i also think its unfair to say he was aiming for the 90's mainstream, you don't know what he was aiming for, i also don't see any distinctive undeniable copies of 90's sound, nothing generically grunge or numetal in the leaks, sure like all GNR albums it has ELEMENTS of varying influences but its distinctively unique.

whatever, i don't understand why everything is so analysed and magnified to the point where its just not enjoyable here, or on most GNR forums, you are so caught up in the chinese democracy saga that you're living it james, the website is proof of this, but remember its the internet, the album is coming out, relax, once you have it in your hands you can analyse every single note to the point where you can't possibly enjoy it.

but i digress, when i need to vent my GNR opinions i'll post elsewhere, somewhere where people aren't as wrapped in the saga and there is more than the same 10 people to talk to.

but thanks for the people who gave me guitar advice and that, that was really nice.

anyway..PEACE BABY'S

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